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1027718 Posts in 41238 Topics- by 32855 Members - Latest Member: Belvister

July 28, 2014, 10:39:57 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreativeWritingprocedurally generated stories
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Graham-
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« Reply #180 on: March 12, 2013, 12:39:33 PM »

So no game? This is just a play-thing.

I mean do you want to monetize?
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #181 on: March 12, 2013, 12:53:47 PM »

I'll monetize Caribbean game Wink but to make such a game I need to learn first, hopefully I can translate what I have learn into something with money value. Actually the sonic/racing games, if done, will be adapted to Caribbean tropes, the racing game is halfway through that. The story generator will translate is tool to help manage scope, just like level generator, it has to be good enough for little diversion while I focus on hi quality hand made content.

So yes it has indirect money value.
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« Reply #182 on: March 12, 2013, 12:56:30 PM »

I haven't really been following this thread, but I'd like to post this series of papers if it hasn't been mentioned before:

Interactive Story Generation


There's like, a whole academic conference on the subject. Most of the work I've seen involves using STRIPS-like planners with a set of "agents" that have "objectives." The agents satisfy their objectives according to the rules laid out about the agents.

One example I found was one where they had the agents in 1001 nights: Aladdin, Jafar, Jasmine, and the Genie. The agents have properties (Jasime is beautiful, Jafar is a bad guy, the genie is in a bottle and does what it is commanded, etc.) then they give Jafar a goal of "marry Jasmine", and the STRIPS-like planner finds a sequence of actions that each character can take to resolve the situation.


I think the major problem with this approach is that you've sort of implicitly thought about what kinds of stories it generates when you set up the characters and rules. (There's no reason those can't be procedurally generated too, however. For instance, the player themselves could be an agent in the story.)

The major strength of the approach is that you can still get to the desired endpoint even if the player fucks something up along the way (you just have to replan).
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Graham-
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« Reply #183 on: March 12, 2013, 02:18:41 PM »

proc-gen is cool
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #184 on: March 13, 2013, 10:36:20 PM »

Okay I had outline something something about pression and problem description, now how do you generate that? When I pose the activity/behavior/situation/attitude I had no real idea until I got to sleep, then I had to wake up to note instant insight Huh? they always happen the exact same moment your head hit the pillow ... annoying!

First I shift the naming to something more readable:
Character action/state (behavior/attitude)
World action/state (activity/situation)

There is two way to generate from them:
1. Implicitly
Generate a world and a bunch of agent with some more or less random parameters and let them pressure agents' needs, from need generate story. If you have wolf pack near a village it's a threat (potential lowering of hp) you can use a solver to select an appropriate goals to release tension. Once that goal is generate you can further add complication alog the goal resolution quite easily.

2. Explicitly
Select a specific need, then generate a world using a solver that purposefully provide pressure and tool to relieve that pressure. It's simply asking what is the story is about, fortunately for me my theme generation take care of that.

But how do you code the semantics? Let's say you go explicit and you want a simple story about behavior and lack of satisfaction. The world can generate a mother, set it to abusive and define the target need of abusive (survival, relationship, satisfaction), it's lack of satisfaction so we choose behavior that prevent the protagonist satisfaction, create a solution and create the path to that solution. Basically in a nutshell, it's much easier to define now actual implementation now we have a direction, adjective (parameter) of agent define the general dynamics, we are able to generate stake. Right now i'm not considering mixing story atom together at all, most human story are usually complex layering of simple atomic story, even the simplest one (for example tracking all the simple relationship between agent are mini arc onto themselves).
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Graham-
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« Reply #185 on: March 14, 2013, 07:58:57 AM »

So what's the question? I don't understand it.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #186 on: March 14, 2013, 08:31:57 AM »

I don't get what you mean
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Graham-
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« Reply #187 on: March 14, 2013, 08:38:37 AM »

I mean was your question hypothetical so you could just answer it yourself or is it an actual question?

I mean I can't separate what you're solving from what you have solved, or if you're currently solving anything - as opposed to building.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #188 on: March 14, 2013, 10:05:08 AM »

It was a rhetorical question, I'm answering it, it need an answer before moving on implementation. Basically it's about linking property of object to story function, property provide pressure and type of needs, you link the right property to another to generate the basic set up for the simplified story generation I'm chasing right now to implement. For example abusive is behavior property, if i link it to one need of another character it became the pressure on this character's need. If there is a pressure on a need you can link it to the tool that would relieve the pressure. Since I have an abstract (almost normalized) way to represent need and pressure (gauges) I can solve them. I didn't look at it yet, but it seems a simple utility tree might be just enough to do that as a solver. But I'm not looking into solver now, I'm looking at structure.
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Graham-
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« Reply #189 on: March 14, 2013, 10:57:44 AM »

ok
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #190 on: April 06, 2013, 10:27:03 PM »

I have been working on hilevel value for story generation:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24530447/flash%20build/GameIdeaStory.html

The word are specific and relate to many concept I might need to explain. It generate strange phrasing now and some wording might be totally off!

I also consider using various free lexical database like the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Mind_Common_Sense
https://github.com/commonsense/conceptnet5/wiki/Relations
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« Reply #191 on: June 21, 2013, 08:14:33 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou6SB8dWKjw
1h talk
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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