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1038151 Posts in 41950 Topics- by 33562 Members - Latest Member: nought

September 01, 2014, 05:48:55 PM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsBuccaneer Bombardment
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Author Topic: Buccaneer Bombardment  (Read 6410 times)
Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 06:29:07 AM »

I get the feeling you're being intentionally obtuse to take advantage of this tiny bit of "controversy" for attention's sake, now. Because if you really can't see the obvious points being presented here, you're either deep in denial or just plain ol' dumb. And stop trying to pretend like the pirates aren't going to rape the women. They're "lustful" and "have been sailing the seas for too long with an all male crew". Your words.

Also:

I also feel that if the sex roles would have been other way around, we may not be having this conversation. Would we?

If you weren't presenting women in a stereotypical and demeaning manner, then no, we wouldn't be complaining about how you present women in a stereotypical and demeaning manner. Duh.

And with that, I'm out of this thread.
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Kramlack
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 06:43:53 AM »

I get the feeling you're being intentionally obtuse to take advantage of this tiny bit of "controversy" for attention's sake, now.

Then stop giving this thread attention, Christian. That way I won't have to reply to you and bump this thread further. Likewise someone won't have to reply to me and whoops, suddenly we're at fifty pages. This is a mediocre looking game with a non-existent story, so maybe we can all just accept that, move on and not make this a giant feminism issue?

If you feel like deleting your post, then I'd be happy to delete this one and then we can both stop bumping this until the next idiot brings this back up.
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Miro
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 06:48:59 AM »

I get the feeling you're being intentionally obtuse to take advantage of this tiny bit of "controversy" for attention's sake, now. Because if you really can't see the obvious points being presented here, you're either deep in denial or just plain ol' dumb. And stop trying to pretend like the pirates aren't going to rape the women. They're "lustful" and "have been sailing the seas for too long with an all male crew". Your words.

Also:

I also feel that if the sex roles would have been other way around, we may not be having this conversation. Would we?

If you weren't presenting women in a stereotypical and demeaning manner, then no, we wouldn't be complaining about how you present women in a stereotypical and demeaning manner. Duh.

And with that, I'm out of this thread.

I did admit that it's stereotypical. But I don't see that anyhow degrading. And no I'm not into the attention. I was just actually curious, what was the actual thing you and other found to be the thing that gave a negative view on women?

Neither was I the one who spoke of raping. Just stealing the women. And that wasn't my questions. I asked is it the thought of having rape in a game, that caused some of this? But this is all just feedback to us. Now we know that we'll maybe have tone down some elements in the game.

And I do find it rather odd, that you may say your mind about the matter in which I response with my own and maybe ask to hear more, and you tell that I'm dumb or in denial. But still, nothing personal.

---Edited---

And it's ok for me, if we drop the issue, I just thought that the forums are for open discussion. And I did appreciate your feedback on the visuals Kramlack. And no we do not have basicly any story in the game, so you are right in that also. Would you consider that it would need some sort of back story?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 07:28:25 AM by Miro » Logged
Cobralad
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 07:59:21 AM »

Every rape discussion ever:
-Its bad to rape women in games
-But its ok to kill men!

Switching women to natives would be better. Also, its casual style is more suited for female gamers, so it would be as offensive, as "Faschist dicks in xeno world".
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2012, 08:00:34 AM »

Controversy or no, I'm going to continue to post because it is important that people have this discussion even if it does give them publicity.

Quote
I also feel that if the sex roles would have been other way around, we may not be having this conversation. Would we?

But they aren't are they?

I'm sure someone could say this better than me and in fewer words, but here goes: You are using simple ingrained cultural symbols to communicate to the player goals and mechanics. Of cause, this is basic game design so I have no problem with that, however you must choose your symbols carefully as every use in culture entrenches that symbol, and makes it more attractive for further use. The symbol you have chosen for use as the basic hostage role is the 'Damsel in distress' symbol, something that communicates to the player that 'this person needs saving'. Reversing gender would not be as effective to the audience, as the 'Damsel in distress' symbol is already embedded in popular culture to the point where simply placing a woman in a hostage situation implies helplessness, whereas a 'Helpless Man' symbol requires further work. If they were male, they would have to be bound or otherwise visibly incapacitated for you to communicate helplessness to the player.

In essence, you are using the marginalization of women as a means for lazy design. By allowing this symbol to perpetuate, you are effectively feeding the player damaging and false information. And we are what we eat.
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Kit
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2012, 08:35:15 AM »

Maybe if you change it to cavemen instead of pirates, you know, for "historical accuracy" and stuff  Durr...? Durr...? Durr...?

Really, are we going to have this discussion in some guy's indie game thread? Why not take it to a post that already exists in the general thread, or make a new post? :3

Asked a few girl gamer buddies of mine if they would play this and they thought it was lawls, so I really think anyone taking offense and making it into a rape or morality thing is just trying to get some attention. Now, is that stuff an important topic not to be discounted? Yes. Yes it is. But maybe the focus should be directed at something that's not so obviously satire. That's what I see it as. Comical graphics and satire.

On to the graphics, I tend to agree that they're sortof a turn off as far as wanting to play. The background is actually quite good in my opinion, but I really hope that the pirate animations are up to par. If you can get some decent animations, even if it's frame animations, I think it will go a loooong way. The flickering death retro throwback is something I always like to see in games though.

Again, if you can make the animations more aesthetically pleasing, I think that would boost the initial "I should try this" factor. I would recommend looking at sprite sheets for common videogames and see how many frames there might need to be, as well as there are some amazing walking/running character tutorials out there. It's suprisingly easy, once you learn the common motions of the body in respect to those activities.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 08:46:52 AM by Kit630 » Logged

Miro
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2012, 08:54:25 AM »

Every rape discussion ever:
-Its bad to rape women in games
-But its ok to kill men!

Switching women to natives would be better. Also, its casual style is more suited for female gamers, so it would be as offensive, as "Faschist dicks in xeno world".

Not commenting on the rape thing anymore, since I feel that there are people who do not wish to talk about this matter anymore.

And yea, we'll mostly take that into a consideration. When I've presented the game idea to female gamers they haven't really been turned off by the fact. But I guess it's the fact how I've been presenting it, so they've kinda understood the humour and that we aren't even trying to be that serious. But we'll think about it.

And to Orihaus, it's either lazy or just effective. I see that we shouldn't always do thing the hard way, just so that we wouldn't use stereotypes. I see nothing false in the situation. In this case, the female is incapable to protect herself, and there could be multiple reasons for that. Maybe the pirates drugged them first (Doing this we'd probably be accused of promoting date-rape), or they are just physically weaker, or just simple fear to act against the pirates (Eventho they don't currently seem like it, since they feel safe in the village). I'd feel restricted if I couldn't portray these on a female character just because she's female. We also use stereotypical male characters, which in no way really gives males a good name. And you can't tell which gender the shaman is (Eventho I may have been referring to the Shaman as a he, but that just because I'm a male, the shaman is supposed to be the player).
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2012, 09:04:42 AM »

Every rape discussion ever:
-Its bad to rape women in games
-But its ok to kill men!

Switching women to natives would be better. Also, its casual style is more suited for female gamers, so it would be as offensive, as "Faschist dicks in xeno world".

Not commenting on the rape thing anymore, since I feel that there are people who do not wish to talk about this matter anymore.

And yea, we'll mostly take that into a consideration. When I've presented the game idea to female gamers they haven't really been turned off by the fact. But I guess it's the fact how I've been presenting it, so they've kinda understood the humour and that we aren't even trying to be that serious. But we'll think about it.

And to Orihaus, it's either lazy or just effective. I see that we shouldn't always do thing the hard way, just so that we wouldn't use stereotypes. I see nothing false in the situation. In this case, the female is incapable to protect herself, and there could be multiple reasons for that. Maybe the pirates drugged them first (Doing this we'd probably be accused of promoting date-rape), or they are just physically weaker, or just simple fear to act against the pirates (Eventho they don't currently seem like it, since they feel safe in the village). I'd feel restricted if I couldn't portray these on a female character just because she's female. We also use stereotypical male characters, which in no way really gives males a good name. And you can't tell which gender the shaman is (Eventho I may have been referring to the Shaman as a he, but that just because I'm a male, the shaman is supposed to be the player).

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Miro
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2012, 09:10:34 AM »

Maybe if you change it to cavemen instead of pirates, you know, for "historical accuracy" and stuff  Durr...? Durr...? Durr...?

Really, are we going to have this discussion in some guy's indie game thread? Why not take it to a post that already exists in the general thread, or make a new post? :3

Asked a few girl gamer buddies of mine if they would play this and they thought it was lawls, so I really think anyone taking offense and making it into a rape or morality thing is just trying to get some attention. Now, is that stuff an important topic not to be discounted? Yes. Yes it is. But maybe the focus should be directed at something that's not so obviously satire. That's what I see it as. Comical graphics and satire.

On to the graphics, I tend to agree that they're sortof a turn off as far as wanting to play. The background is actually quite good in my opinion, but I really hope that the pirate animations are up to par. If you can get some decent animations, even if it's frame animations, I think it will go a loooong way. The flickering death retro throwback is something I always like to see in games though.

Again, if you can make the animations more aesthetically pleasing, I think that would boost the initial "I should try this" factor. I would recommend looking at sprite sheets for common videogames and see how many frames there might need to be, as well as there are some amazing walking/running character tutorials out there. It's suprisingly easy, once you learn the common motions of the body in respect to those activities.

I'll do my best to work on the animations, since I'll may have some time to polish them. We seriously don't have that much time, as I've said before, and we use 10 frames for the animations currently, but we could probably ramp that up a bit, we just didn't want the spritesheet to be too large in size. It's for a mobile after all. And we had this animated tv show called pasila as reference (which has kinda similar cartoony character style), so we looked into that since I felt that it would be fast enough to do so.
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 09:42:36 AM »

Asked a few girl gamer buddies of mine if they would play this and they thought it was lawls, so I really think anyone taking offense and making it into a rape or morality thing is just trying to get some attention.
Appeal to popularity. Try harder next time.

Quote
Now, is that stuff an important topic not to be discounted? Yes. Yes it is. But maybe the focus should be directed at something that's not so obviously satire. That's what I see it as. Comical graphics and satire.
Because a game making light of rape doesn't continue the rape culture that is a part of modern videogames.
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Miro
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2012, 02:35:13 AM »

We have some gameplay footage on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HBBnxqoXpew
(Sorry for the rather bad quality)

That build still had some bugs, which you can also see in the preview. Now and then tapping the character made it fly somewhere extremely fast. That is currently fixed also. We are currently fixing last bugs and making last updates. We'll have a PC playable version 22. day. It most likely won't feature sound effects, which we'll add next month.
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Jammo
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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2012, 03:10:05 AM »

Switching women to natives would be better.

Except everyone would jump down your throat for being racist... choose your poison.

I like boobs. And that's fine. I am a straight male, it's nature at its best to me. Everyone automatically goes to extremes about how this game could possible inspire rape or gender attitudes, but this will be a very very small (perhaps non existent) part of the market. Or if everyone continues to be offended, just have a gender switched game mode.

I don't mean to be devil's advocate and be inflammatory, but let's get it in perspective, we are getting offended over pixels that happen to be put together and move in a certain way, and which is obviously intended as a joke. I recommend those jumping to defend feminism and rape issue redirect their efforts to real issues that have more tangible consequences.
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2012, 08:50:14 AM »

Except everyone would jump down your throat for being racist... choose your poison.

Because it would be.  Somehow I think that a game about stealing people from their native land, might not be exactly culturally sensitive.

Everyone automatically goes to extremes about how this game could possible inspire rape or gender attitudes, but this will be a very very small (perhaps non existent) part of the market. Or if everyone continues to be offended, just have a gender switched game mode.
This isn't extremes.  It is a game about *wink,wink* *nudge,nude* rape.  Just because the word rape isn't there, it doesn't mean the threat of rape isn't. 

And doing the right thing isn't predicated on whether it will affect your bottom line.

I don't mean to be devil's advocate and be inflammatory, but let's get it in perspective, we are getting offended over pixels that happen to be put together and move in a certain way, and which is obviously intended as a joke. I recommend those jumping to defend feminism and rape issue redirect their efforts to real issues that have more tangible consequences.
Oh wow, you sure are right.  There exists injustice elsewhere in the world, so obviously no one should say anything against this. 
[/sarcasm]

Look, this game is a horrible idea.  It only serves to continue the rape culture of gaming.  Are there greater injustices in the world? Certainly.  But just because there are greater injustices doesn't make this any less of an injustice. 

So, climb down off your tower of male privilege and maybe try to learn a little empathy.  Perhaps you can understand a game making fun of one of, if not the most, traumatic experiences that a human being can undergo and survive is a horrible idea.



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moi
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« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2012, 09:31:25 AM »

give the guy a break and don't play the game if you don't like it ffs
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2012, 09:54:40 AM »

No, I won't. 

I expect better from everyone here.  It's probably fucking stupid, but here we are.
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