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1028680 Posts in 41309 Topics- by 32916 Members - Latest Member: brokeit

July 31, 2014, 09:45:04 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesOuya - New Game Console?
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Author Topic: Ouya - New Game Console?  (Read 91565 times)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
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RinkuHero
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« Reply #945 on: February 19, 2013, 10:32:36 AM »

I'm confused... When did Paul refer to a tragedy that killed hundreds of people?

the phrase 'drank the kool-aid' apparently has an origin in a suicide cult where all the cult members killed themselves at the same time by drinking kool-aid, which happened almost 35 years ago, before most of us were born (just barely after i was born in my case). since that event, it has taken on the extended meaning of being deluded by hype, being gullible, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

(however, according to that article, its origins are unclear; there's also a theory it can be traced to LSD use in the 60s, to something unrelated to that cult, when people used to use kool-aid to prepare LSD)
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #946 on: February 19, 2013, 10:45:49 AM »

I wasn't aware of that (potential) origin of the phrase. I've seen it used all over -- even previously in this thread, I think. What a weird thing to suddenly get upset about.
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« Reply #947 on: February 19, 2013, 10:56:02 AM »

I wasn't aware of that (potential) origin of the phrase. I've seen it used all over -- even previously in this thread, I think. What a weird thing to suddenly get upset about.

i know right, now knowing what that guy was whining about really makes his post shine as one of the most retarded, overemotional posts ive ever seen.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #948 on: February 19, 2013, 11:14:49 AM »

This is just another example of needing to be a little more careful in communication. Using terms or phrases that you aren't familiar with can lead to misunderstanding.

I was familiar with the origins of the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid." I didn't call Paul out on it because the intent of his statement was clear, and it was an appropriate use of the phrase given the argument he was making. It was a bit of an exaggeration, but within the context it got his point across effectively.

There is inherent danger in crowd-funding. It's a very new approach to financing, and there haven't yet been enough successful crowd-funded projects to consider it a sustainable business model for general use. And while the OUYA project appears to be going rather well, there is still a very real danger that it could fall through or implode in on itself.

For my part, a lot of my doubts were put to rest after the initial OUYA dev kits were shipped off to the developers who had sprung for the development tier. In my mind, successfully shipping the initial run of units to developers so that active development could begin for the system was a concrete milestone.

The time to wring your hands over whether or not OUYA was a "scam" was several months ago. At this point we've seen a decent degree of progress on the project. Physical products are in the wild. It's already passed beyond smoke and mirrors. There is still much and more for the OUYA team to prove about the long-term viability of what they've created. But its clear now that the OUYA will not go the way of the Phantom.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #949 on: February 19, 2013, 11:19:37 AM »

Yeah, I've been a bit confused by (the very few) people suggesting it might be a scam -- though I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting that anymore. Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity, and all that jazz.
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« Reply #950 on: February 19, 2013, 11:26:58 AM »

what about releasing a new version of it each year? it can still be a scam while also being a real product; plenty of real products are scams (for example, pet rocks)
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #951 on: February 19, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »

Yes. What Paul is worried about now is not the physical product, but the "dream" that the OUYA team is going to be selling going forward. And he may be right where that's concerned. While the OUYA team has shipped a physical product (albeit, as an early beta specifically for development purposes) they have not yet delivered on the de-facto digital storefront for their console. For an indie developer looking to possibly earn a living off of OUYA development, this is a very pressing issue.

For me it's not as much of an issue. I'm a hobbyist, not a professional. I'm not quitting my day job. I'm also cautious enough not to drop all my eggs in the OUYA basket. But some others might not be as wary, and might commit all their resources to developing software for this new console. I don't think they will be as numerous as Paul fears. But the possibility is there.

OUYA definitely still has a lot to prove. At its best it could end up being a household name. At its worst it will be a minor footnote in the history of this industry. (and a desirable curio for the shelves of collectors)
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #952 on: February 19, 2013, 11:32:00 AM »

what about releasing a new version of it each year? it can still be a scam while also being a real product; plenty of real products are scams (for example, pet rocks)

I wouldn't call that a scam, since people know what they're buying. Scam implies fraudulent action. I'd just call it poor business practice or milking your market. Grin

EDIT: However, I think the so-called 'dev kits' are borderline scammy. They're not really dev kits, they're just early versions of the hardware sold at an extreme markup.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #953 on: February 19, 2013, 11:34:39 AM »

what about releasing a new version of it each year? it can still be a scam while also being a real product; plenty of real products are scams (for example, pet rocks)

By that logic, I would argue that the iPod/iPhone/iPad lines are enormous scams. Overpriced hardware that is sold at a huge markup, and uses style and marketing to sell. (rather than substance and features) And those get new versions each year. (or every two years, gotta time it right for renewing phone contracts)

Everything about the OUYA was made possible by the explosion in the mobile industry. The operating system, the CPU, the diminutive size. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that they might seek to emulate that industry's hardware cycle as well. Development for iOS and Android hasn't been hampered by new hardware coming out every year. (well, possibly for Android, but that problem was there from the beginning) It's a hardware cycle that has proven successful in that industry. Given the budget nature of the OUYA, it is possible that it will work for it as well.

Crying foul and tearing out your hair at this juncture is silly, though.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #954 on: February 19, 2013, 11:45:42 AM »

oh, i agree about the iphone; remember the big steve jobs thread? there were a few of us (including myself) in that thread who were saying that steve jobs shouldn't be held up as a hero, but as a con artist who primarily sold style and hype and good feelings, and didn't actually innovate very much (e.g. smartphones existed before apple, they just made them cool)

the ouya is very jobs-like -- not in some specifics (for instance, it's not a closed platform the way apple's is, and it isn't as expensive yet) but in how it's marketed. there's nothing wrong with marketing per se, but marketing should serve a greater good, ideally it should convince people to buy things that are actually good for them. instead this is a product which consists mostly of marketing and offers little advantage over cheaper, more mundane alternatives, like a $3 hdmi cable to connect your computer to your television

(and yeah it offers some advantage over that, such as standardization. however, how standard can it be when a new one is released every year? is it really standardization to have to test your game on an ouya 4, an ouya 3, an ouya 2, and an ouya 1?)
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #955 on: February 19, 2013, 01:19:24 PM »

How come dislike is an invalid feeling towards the product but constant praise is not? There is a bit of hypocrisy in some of your arguments.

None of the people who dislike the Ouya are going around telling you to stop being so positive. We're just giving reasons why we think it's shit.

But apparently no one is allowed to do that. The worst kind of people are the people so furiously against negative criticism.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #956 on: February 19, 2013, 01:55:28 PM »

How come dislike is an invalid feeling towards the product but constant praise is not? There is a bit of hypocrisy in some of your arguments.

No one is saying you can't have a negative opinion toward the product. But a lot of people just seem to want to ascribe some manner of evil to it. There's a difference between not agreeing with a product and outright reviling it. Preaching doom and gloom, and railing against a product that hasn't even seen commercial release is going a bit far.

Perhaps more importantly, many individuals don't seem to want to think constructively about the very arguments they bring up. Proposing positive solutions is much better than just pointing out short comings.

It's the difference between being critical of something, and being a hater. Being critical is prudent and cautionary. Being a hater is just nothing but destructive.
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« Reply #957 on: February 19, 2013, 02:05:41 PM »

what about being critical of essentially bad ideas? i mean, there are some ideas that can't be improved, they should just be given up. the ouya almost seems like one of these

i can't really see how it can be improved into something that works, unless they very drastically redesign it completely, e.g.

- give up the restrictive sales model where everyone is forced to make games free to play or use a loophole in the terms of service to make it equivalent to a sale of a full game

- give up releasing a new one each year and go for a new one every 5 years or so

- take measures to prevent piracy

but the ouya team is pretty set on doing what it's going to do so it's not like they are open to such suggestions

also, you make it sound like only "haters" are saying this stuff about ouya. but the same exact stuff we're saying about it is being said by figures like john romero here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p9lY-o6V2U -- he's not being any less or more harsh with his words there than we are here
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #958 on: February 19, 2013, 02:10:47 PM »

Those negative posts you are talking about are no more useful than the generic posts that praise the Ouya on here. Yet you say nothing of those, and both forms of comments are equally useless.

And many of these so called naysayers are being constructive, I find very few in here that are outright negative that don't give some kind of solid reasoning behind it.

"this is dumb" - a statement by a hater. equally useless as a statement by someone saying "this is cool"

"this is dumb, because--" just as useful to conversation as someone saying "this is cool, because--" yet you and others are so adamant about shutting them up and dismissing what they say, on the basis that it's negative and you write them off being haters. It's childish and annoying.

Personally I value everyone's opinion equally. I don't care if you hate it or like it and don't give any reason, I feel your opinion is just as useful as everyone else's. And on a forum, I think it's cool that everyone is sharing their opinion no matter which side of the fence they are on. It's called respect, so if you don't agree with an opinion you can either ignore it or address it. Stop trying to silence people.
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« Reply #959 on: February 19, 2013, 02:53:26 PM »


i didn't even know the origin of that phrase until i looked it up

I was being entirely facetious. It is one of those phrases that has an unfortunate origin. Nobody in their right mind believes you were trying to make that kind of association. I was expecting to be called on it, and I think Richard Kain did that, quite politely and accurately too.

Why be facetious? I was responding to a post that used "toys kill kids" as a pivot point, and "I see my actions as charity" as a means to claim the moral high ground after painting a whole group of people as being gullible and easily misled. I didn't much like the implications of taking it too seriously. So I didn't.

it's also somewhat strange that you are accusing others of getting emotionally worked up over ouya

No. Let's dismantle this strawman right here. A rereading of my post should show that if there was a target of accusation or criticism in my post, it was myself. To elaborate: I had written a long post, and common sense kicked in after I asked myself why I felt the need to write such a post. With no answer I was happy with, I discarded it. If there is a message in my post, it was to avoid the mistake I made.

I'll leave the rest of the barbs alone for now.

i know right, now knowing what that guy was whining about really makes his post shine as one of the most retarded, overemotional posts ive ever seen.

I wouldn't dream of taking that away from you.

I was familiar with the origins of the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid." I didn't call Paul out on it because the intent of his statement was clear, and it was an appropriate use of the phrase given the argument he was making.

This is an excellent summary and I agree. The phrase has an unfortunate association tied to it, but honestly, the commonly accepted one nowadays is more along the lines of people being easily misled or gullible, rather than associating it with an actual tragedy.

Still, even with the more generous interpretation, it's not particularly nice to label a group of people as being gullible and easily misled.
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