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1059473 Posts in 43082 Topics- by 35039 Members - Latest Member: haddenadam

October 31, 2014, 11:37:26 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesOuya - New Game Console?
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Author Topic: Ouya - New Game Console?  (Read 105970 times)
Richard Kain
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« Reply #960 on: February 19, 2013, 03:12:44 PM »

- give up the restrictive sales model where everyone is forced to make games free to play or use a loophole in the terms of service to make it equivalent to a sale of a full game

A "restrictive" sales model? You can do anything you please within those guidelines. You can make a game where everything is locked except a big button on the splash screen that says "Click here to buy this game." How is any of that restrictive. You're quibbling over semantics. The only restriction here is that the end-users have to be able to access some portion of your game from the word go, even if it's just the splash screen. You can still control everything else. And all of this is presuming that you even bother to use the OUYA's on-line store.

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- give up releasing a new one each year and go for a new one every 5 years or so

Why? Releasing a new model every year keeps the platform fresh in the minds of consumers. Any developer shooting for maximum compatibility can just use the OUYA model 1 as their base target. iOS has been doing this since it first launched and hasn't had any issues. As long as the price of new systems remains consistent the consumers aren't going to complain about it either.

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- take measures to prevent piracy

What measures? It's an open hardware platform without restrictions. That's half the point of the platform in the first place. Taking overt measures to curtail piracy would make them no different than any other console manufacturer.

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also, you make it sound like only "haters" are saying this stuff about ouya. but the same exact stuff we're saying about it is being said by figures like john romero here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p9lY-o6V2U -- he's not being any less or more harsh with his words there than we are here

The man responsible for the design and marketing of Daikatana? Yes, I'm sure his stance on the release of a new hardware platform is going to be prescient. [sarcasm]

All I'm hearing from you is that you want the OUYA to be more like every other console. If that were the case, what would be the point? The idea of a budget-priced console is something Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should have pursued years ago. Now that we have a fourth party trying their hand, you can't be happy unless they follow suite with their far better funded competitors?

Let the experiment happen. If it doesn't work out, it's no skin off of your teeth.
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Schoq
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« Reply #961 on: February 19, 2013, 03:54:40 PM »

The man responsible for the design and marketing of Daikatana?
ftfy
stfu
glhf
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #962 on: February 19, 2013, 03:59:19 PM »

Quote
The man responsible for the design and marketing of Daikatana? Yes, I'm sure his stance on the release of a new hardware platform is going to be prescient. [sarcasm]

Nothing in your statement refutes anything John Romero says in that video. You're such a fucking dumb idiot.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #963 on: February 19, 2013, 04:41:13 PM »

I have been following this ouya thing for a long time and there is only one question in my mind the entire time ...

WHAT'S THE MARKET OF OUYA?

I mean it's clear that the market is developer and that's where all the communication of the ouya console's awareness is spent.

But as developer where is your market? Who will buy the ouya beside dreaming game dev?

At heart it's a hobbyist market of dev who make game for other dev or wannabee ... it's indeed the mystic of developing on a home console more than a real market with real target.
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zalzane
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« Reply #964 on: February 19, 2013, 07:19:27 PM »

WHAT'S THE MARKET OF OUYA?

band-wagoners and people who are extremely desperate to be at the forefront of the best big thing
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Ant
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« Reply #965 on: February 20, 2013, 01:05:17 AM »

Well I'm neither of those and wouldn't mind getting an Ouya as a cheap 'arcade machine' I can plonk next to my TV. Maybe I'm lazy but I don't want to lug my regular PC or trail 10 metre cables around the house. I'm paying for convenience which is the main selling point of a lot of modern stuff.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #966 on: February 20, 2013, 02:41:23 AM »

i think hes referring to the claims that the ouya will "revolutionize the console market" and etc.
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nikki
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« Reply #967 on: February 20, 2013, 04:26:59 AM »

What do you guys think ?

Will there ever be in-house developed Ouya games ?


to make killer game that's exclusive and very cool ?

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alastair
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« Reply #968 on: February 20, 2013, 04:44:12 AM »

I'm hoping for Ninjabread Man port.
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Graham-
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« Reply #969 on: February 20, 2013, 04:54:23 AM »

I don't know if they have the team for in-house. ... They're better off getting others devs to port I think. I could be wrong.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #970 on: February 20, 2013, 05:33:47 AM »

What do you guys think ?

Will there ever be in-house developed Ouya games ?


to make killer game that's exclusive and very cool ?


halo 7 is going to be ouya exclusive
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #971 on: February 20, 2013, 06:47:19 AM »

A "restrictive" sales model? You can do anything you please within those guidelines. You can make a game where everything is locked except a big button on the splash screen that says "Click here to buy this game." How is any of that restrictive. You're quibbling over semantics. The only restriction here is that the end-users have to be able to access some portion of your game from the word go, even if it's just the splash screen. You can still control everything else. And all of this is presuming that you even bother to use the OUYA's on-line store.

i don't think it's just semantics if the restrictions have discouraged several developers from developing for the ouya (some in this very thread). if the rules that you can "work within" are driving away indie developers, something is wrong.

All I'm hearing from you is that you want the OUYA to be more like every other console. If that were the case, what would be the point? The idea of a budget-priced console is something Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should have pursued years ago. Now that we have a fourth party trying their hand, you can't be happy unless they follow suite with their far better funded competitors?

no, i think there are problems with the other consoles as well. but if you want a budget priced console, why not just buy a playstation 2? it likely has far superior games to anything the ouya will ever have, and it costs less than an ouya
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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RinkuHero
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« Reply #972 on: February 20, 2013, 06:54:46 AM »

I was being entirely facetious. It is one of those phrases that has an unfortunate origin. Nobody in their right mind believes you were trying to make that kind of association. I was expecting to be called on it, and I think Richard Kain did that, quite politely and accurately too.

Why be facetious? I was responding to a post that used "toys kill kids" as a pivot point, and "I see my actions as charity" as a means to claim the moral high ground after painting a whole group of people as being gullible and easily misled. I didn't much like the implications of taking it too seriously. So I didn't.

the part about it being a charity was also facetious though -- i mean, i do think that it's a valuable thing to warn gullible devs away from the ouya, but to say that that's the only reason i'm posting in this thread was obviously sarcasm. the primary reason is that it's an interesting topic of discussion, probably the most amazing scam* i've seen in videogames since the nintendo hot-line (where they'd intentionally make parts in games that are impossible to beat without a guide and then charge you 3$ a minute to call them up and get information about how to get past that part)

(*note again that i'm using scam not in the sense of fraud, like selling the brooklyn bridge, but in the sense of providing something which is of little value while tricking people into thinking they've gotten something of great value; a scheme might be a better word?)

but anyway, if you actually meant yourself rather than others, is till don't see the point in calling what i wrote a rationalization. what exactly is it rationalizing? that i have some unconscious irrational hatred towards the ouya for reasons i don't want to admit, and am inventing alternative explanations which hide the truth of why i don't like it? i'm not really sure what the alternative is to me genuinely believing that the ouya is a trick
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Ouren
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« Reply #973 on: February 21, 2013, 08:24:15 PM »

Ouno

Can you u plae Uno on your Ouno?  Corny Laugh
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nikki
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« Reply #974 on: February 28, 2013, 12:51:50 PM »

nice. very nice.

So Jesus got some competition I hear?
Or did he do the saviouring from gaming?
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #975 on: February 28, 2013, 01:11:24 PM »

exclusives are the worst thing about gaming (next to DLC and micro-transactions), why are you so eager to welcome them because they are on the Ouya?

it makes sense from a business standpoint but it's shitty for consumers.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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RinkuHero
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« Reply #976 on: February 28, 2013, 01:54:52 PM »

i think adding kellee is a good choice but none of that news is really unexpected / surprising or changes any of the core criticisms of the ouya -- that it's still just an android that attaches to a tv (and offers no advantage over attaching your actual android to your tv and plugging in a joystick), that it'll likely have at least as high a rate of piracy as the android does, that it requires in-game microtransactions rather than traditional sales, that it probably won't even reach a million ouyas sold (and so have a very limited audience for the games that are on it), that you have to buy a new one every year (especially if you want to test your game on all of them different versions of ouya), etc.

regarding pricing and reach, think of it this way: most ouya games, because of microtransactions, will probably be in the $1-$5 range rather than the $20-$50 range of traditional games. there are only about 50,000 total ouyas sold so far (through kickstarter), and an unknown number of preorders from their site (probably no more than another 50,000). that's 100,000 people you can sell your $1 ouya-exclusive game to. i don't know if ouya takes a percent of the sales of your games, but they probably do. so if you look at a typical case for the first year, if you sell your $1 ouya game to every single ouya user, and ouya takes 50%, that's 50,000 (before taxes and other expenses). and that's for a game that sells to every single ouya owner. it just seems like madness for an indie to even bother to port a game to it until it's proven itself somehow (such as first getting a larger user base), it feels like a gold rush to a mountain where not a single nugget of gold has ever been found
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SolarLune
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« Reply #977 on: February 28, 2013, 03:19:17 PM »

The Ouya isn't supposed to be competing with traditional games, but rather is supposed to have a digital distribution service (that I would imagine) wouldn't be unlike eShop / XBLA / PSN, and so I would imagine most games would be similar to those prices (i.e. $5-15, though prices can vary to be lower or higher).

I think the exclusivity makes it so that you have to buy the Ouya if you want to play specific games, which will probably help sales (i.e. you could buy this other Android thing, or you could buy an Ouya and do what that other device can do, as well as play these particular exclusive games).

The in-game microtransaction problem sounds minimal to me (though I don't know). If unlocking your full game is a single one-time micro-transaction, what's the difference between Ouya's method and 'traditional sales'?

$50,000 (or even far less) isn't a lot for most people or big teams, but for an individual or small indie team, it sounds like more than enough to sustain the team. Also, the Ouya team take a 33% cut or something like that. I think the number is similar to Steam's cut, if I recall.
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TomHunt
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« Reply #978 on: February 28, 2013, 03:29:28 PM »

it's still just an android that attaches to a tv (and offers no advantage over attaching your actual android to your tv and plugging in a joystick)
- A Nexus 7 costs $250. An Ouya will cost $99 + maybe $30-$90 for extra controllers - which you'd have to get anyway for console-style gaming on a tablet, plus having to deal with a driver app on quasi-standard hardware. The Ouya is the more accessible option here for all but the most hardcore of consumers.

- There's no 3G data plan nonsense to deal with, as with most Android devices. You buy the device, you hook it up, that's it. It's $99 once, not $99 per month. Big difference in total cost of ownership.


it'll likely have at least as high a rate of piracy as the android does,
on traditional consoles, they have to worry about used game sales, which arguably has the same effect as piracy (developer doesn't get paid). give players a reason not to pirate your game, or at least give you money somehow if they happen to like it.

also piracy is at least as much of a problem on PC as it is on any other type of device.

it requires in-game microtransactions rather than traditional sales
that's not true. there has to be a freely playable version of the game, but nothing says it has to be entirely F2P. you could release a free demo and charge for the full version, as with shareware, which has been around for ages as a business model for indies.


you have to buy a new one every year (especially if you want to test your game on all of them different versions of ouya), etc.
the same problem exists with all smartphone development, and it's mostly mitigated by the hardware not making too revolutionary of leaps within a single generation. also, using an engine (i.e. unity) will effectively outsource this problem, and you only really need to deal with changes in screen size standards, which occur far less often in TVs than in mobile devices.


While I doubt that it will be all flowers and sing-a-longs in developing for the Ouya, I also don't think it's completely hopeless, either. It stands to expand the market for console gaming by launching at a lower price point than any console has ever done (except maybe the original game boy, if you dont adjust for inflation?) and being designed straight-out with digital distribution as the primary way of buying games. It also eliminates the long-running assumption that only top-flight, well-funded studios are able to make quality console games and should thus be the only ones given top-priority access to the market.

What remains to be seen are, as you say, actual hardware sales numbers, workable price points for the games themselves, actual effect of piracy on sales vs other mitigating factors, and how much of a practical requirement F2P becomes relative to the other consoles on the market.

As a primary platform, sure, I'm still a little skeptical at this point, but I don't have to look at it that way. I can take my Android games, rework them a little bit to work with a d-pad and buttons instead of a touchscreen, and bam - Ouya game. (ok maybe there's a couple of other steps involved but you get the idea).

Sure, it might not even succeed, but at $99 for a *dev kit* and hardly any extra costs to port if you're already making games for Android, I see very little reason why it would be not worth at least trying.


And yeah, if I could make $50k off a single game, and do a few of those in a year, I'd be making bank.
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« Reply #979 on: February 28, 2013, 03:34:58 PM »

it just seems like madness for an indie to even bother to port a game to it until it's proven itself somehow (such as first getting a larger user base), it feels like a gold rush to a mountain where not a single nugget of gold has ever been found

I'm not particularly keen on Ouya (I'm certainly not one of its backers), but I think it seems like it's a platform that's at least worth a punt for anyone who has an Android build for a game that would work well with pad and TV. It certainly wouldn't be mad. It might be comparatively little additional work needed and if they can get on there early, there's unlikely to be many decent games to begin with, so it's a chance to stand out. Even if sales on the Ouya itself aren't great because of limited customers, it can also be used to get attention for the game that helps on other platforms.
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