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[Alevice]

they dont think stopping me from playing is a good idea

Isnt that how *most* (read, not all) modern games are? They hsave plenty of shit that happenes mid of the game where you stop playing, most are cinematics and bullshit that stop the pace of the game.  It's kinda annoying tat most games have a fucking tedious introduction that last way more than it should for the sake for cinmatic purposes. And it i unskippable. That's what annoys me from Skyrim, Super Paper Mario, Deus Ex HR, etc etc.

I kinda like when a game has a way to quickly get to the point.

[Alevice]

Also eva, curious and sincere question, what is your stance with Startegy games overall (including sim games like anno 1404, or starcraft, or civilization)? Most of them seem to fall into point 4, but they work much differently than gta for example

[e_va]

Hey eva what if you got to customizing your character right at the beginning of the game? Like, here's a skill tree, easy mode gives 10 points, medium gives 7 points, hard gives dum points, go nuts. Would you still unninstall the game?

this list isnt definitive of whether i'd uninstall or not but thats making me make a hard choice that carrys through the rest of the game which is another annoyance. i don't know what i'd rather have. if the game is strong enough for me to beat despite having every shitty thing on this list then they did a good job masking the shittyness (polishing a turd works.)

sure its not like you wrote an essay or anything. point is: if you customize your character right at the beginning how is it any different from choosing leonardo instead of rafael or whatever

well its telling me to choose what playstyle i want before i even tried out the game which is strange in itself. choosing between classes, "sword guy, bow guy, magic guy" is a bit easier of a choice than presenting a skill tree but it's still slightly annoying to me. my preference would simply be one guy. i get what skyrim or whatever tries to do. your one handed skill raises if you use one hand, but then i kind of want to stick to a few skills... there are a billion other problems with skyrim but for the sake of this answer i'll leave it at that

[e_va]

they dont think stopping me from playing is a good idea

Isnt that how *most* (read, not all) modern games are? They hsave plenty of shit that happenes mid of the game where you stop playing, most are cinematics and bullshit that stop the pace of the game.  It's kinda annoying tat most games have a fucking tedious introduction that last way more than it should for the sake for cinmatic purposes. And it i unskippable. That's what annoys me from Skyrim, Super Paper Mario, Deus Ex HR, etc etc.

I kinda like when a game has a way to quickly get to the point.

i don't have a problem with long intros, buy preferably if i ever replay them i'd want to be able to skip. i'm still less anoyed by cutscenes than say bringing up the inventory or map every minute as if that's expected gameplay in these games.

[e_va]

Also eva, curious and sincere question, what is your stance with Startegy games overall (including sim games like anno 1404, or starcraft, or civilization)? Most of them seem to fall into point 4, but they work much differently than gta for example

i've only played starcraft from that and i barely touched it, but i don't mean sandbox as in it's combat system or mechanics as some designers use the term. i'm referring to the playstyle involving punching trees for 100 hours or whatever nerds like to do in just cause 2. yes, fooling around in games is fun... for like 10 seconds. i don't think i can play another "sandbox" game. say i have no creativity or whatever but i dont want the game to make me make the game, that's what game maker is for dumdum

in "the sims" i don't free-play. that should giv u an idea

[shig]

I disagree with a bunch of stuff here and there yet I don't want to make some huge 5-paragraph gimmypost. Thanks for taking the dum to answer our shit anyways.

[cystem glitch]

did you like the half of MGS2 that you played

[e_va]

mgs2: i dont remember it at all so it must have been average
shig: no problemo

[Gimym TILBERT]

It's funny I almost agree with all point that Eva brought nuanced by the fact I like to stop to figure out thing a little or don't mind choice when they make sense aka not morrorwind bullshit.

In fact Eva = constant engagement design philosophy.

She might like old linear games like SMB therefore.
what about sonic unleash?

[SirNiko]

which reminds me... dificulty curves make no sense. why make the game worse as it goes on?

I think for most people, it's so that once they good at all the things they have to do in the first level, they don't breeze through the rest of the game. If the game stays the same difficulty and the player keeps getting better then it just keeps getting easier overall.

Maybe developers should try to make games with shallow enough difficulty curves that the player getting better and the game getting harder cancel each other out and the game is pretty much the same difficulty the whole way through?

Or you could just make games that aren't difficult at all, but instead keep fresh by throwing new cool stuff at you all the time so the fun comes from constantly having new things to do and experiment with. I can't think of a game that's tried something like that and I feel like I should be able to.

[Udderdude]

Or you could just make games that aren't difficult at all, but instead keep fresh by throwing new cool stuff at you all the time so the fun comes from constantly having new things to do and experiment with. I can't think of a game that's tried something like that and I feel like I should be able to.

The green levels in the Flash games I've made are like this.  Of course, they're just an introduction to the yellow/red levels, so there's that eeeeevil difficulty curve creeping up .. :p

You could also argue most sandbox games are like this, as you get tons of stuff to fuck around with, without any real difficulty (unless you're seeking it out by limiting yourself).

[C.A. Sinner]

It's funny I almost agree with all point that Eva brought nuanced by the fact I like to stop to figure out thing a little or don't mind choice when they make sense aka not morrorwind bullshit.

the thing is, as i said i dont mind making "wrong" choices in games and i dont mind making uninformed choices etc. most of the time i just do what makes the most sense to me, or when i play an rpg, try to do what i think my character would do in the situation.

i dont think (good) rpgs are really meant to be played to get the "best character build" or "the best ending" (aka min-maxing). the idea isn't to play the game "perfectly" according to game logic, or at least thats not how i play them.

[Gimym TILBERT]

I was thinking more like the percent of making broken build that looked decent. Think oblivion, it's not about optimality but a threshold where a game became totally unplayable.

[C.A. Sinner]

ok yeah, that's probably true. but otoh i never looked up any guides for morrowind (unless the manual counts as a "guide") and i never got a build that made the game unplayable. mw was my first rpg (not counting jrpgs). same thing for oblivion but i haven't played the game that much so maybe it's easier to make a broken build idk. skyrim probably does it better than both though.

[Paul Eres]

i think the thing is that in rpgs, you gradually collect more items and weapons and skills and abilities and spells and whatnot, but the enemies? all they do is gain more HP and more attack power. so late game feels more boring than early game because you can blast through anything and the only challenge is to keep your healing just as fast than their damage while reducing their HP from 1 million to zero

there are rpgs that avoid that, but not many. and it applies just as much to jrpgs as to wrpgs; most of the bosses of dragon age, world of warcraft, and final fantasy and dragon quest all were a 'keep your healing higher than the boss's damage while reducing their hp from 1 million to zero'