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[louisdeb]

Really like the mechanic where you can jump on to your spears

I really liked it more when it was called Fishbane

Ah hadn't seen that game before, that one looks good too, especially riding your flying spear.

[Tuba]

Really like the mechanic where you can jump on to your spears

I really liked it more when it was called Fishbane

Nobody remembers Quackshot

Best Mega Drive/SEGA Genesis ever made... for me at least.


So, one of the guys is reading this? Are you the one that worked on Web of Shadows for DS? Love the combat in that game, make it as flexible as that please! :D

[Zauron]

So, one of the guys is reading this? Are you the one that worked on Web of Shadows for DS? Love the combat in that game, make it as flexible as that please! :D

Yes I am that one.  Volgarr is more old-school arcade style combat and not combo-focused like Web of Shadows, however, I still used many of the same techniques to ensure smooth and responsive controls, like interrupts and cancels.

[Nix]

I hope your Kickstarter pulls through (and it looks like it will). I tend to hate Kickstarer because people see it as an avenue for free money with little to no evidence of any ability to follow through or investment in the final product and Kickstarter funders sop it all up with their bank accounts. You both have demonstrated both competence and investment, so good luck to you.

[[RM8]]

They worked on Shinobi 3DS, I'm helping 

[Miguelito]

Not really sure about this.
I can definitely see myself funding something like this, but the playing area shown in the video doesn't really inspire confidence design-wise - lots of samey stretches, blind jumps and elements placed next to each other haphazardly. The graphics could use some polish, especially with your claim to improve on the classics.

You should have no problem meeting your goal, but personally I'm holding out for some more gripping gameplay footage.

[Zauron]

Not really sure about this.
I can definitely see myself funding something like this, but the playing area shown in the video doesn't really inspire confidence design-wise - lots of samey stretches, blind jumps and elements placed next to each other haphazardly. The graphics could use some polish, especially with your claim to improve on the classics.

You should have no problem meeting your goal, but personally I'm holding out for some more gripping gameplay footage.

I don't know if this is revealing too much, but...

All of the footage you saw was from a special map we call "the gym" that won't be in the game (and would be a terrible level).

I always make a map like this to quickly test all the different game mechanics - when you have to recompile and tweak something, you don't want to have to get through a real level every time, you want something where you can immediately test the mechanic.  So yes we have things like slopes, ropes, platforms, spikes, fire, etc. all just placed nearby each other so we can get to them quickly while working on mechanics.  It also has platforms in various seemingly random places just to test different jump distances to see which jumps feel the best.

Since the gym was already there it also was convenient to use it to test the parallax scrolling and animated tile systems, which is what the quick BG art was made for.  It doesn't even actually have enemies normally, I just added some with the run-time editor to record the footage.

What we have from real levels was not shown as they have no art at all yet, because we are using a development method were we make sure the level fits all our quality tests first and then have it drawn, to reduce the amount of re-drawing that would need to be done for finalized art.  Level art is one of the last things done, first need all the mechanics down pat, then the enemies for the level so you can make sure the level works correctly with them while designing it (some people make the mistake of making the level layout and then throwing in the enemies later, or worse making the levels before the mechanics are nailed down!), then the level layout itself, and finally the level art as the last step.

This method makes for well crafted games but isn't so great for showing it off in-development in videos or at things like PAX, E3, etc.

[J-Snake]

some people make the mistake of making the level layout and then throwing in the enemies later, or worse making the levels before the mechanics are nailed down!

Really?

[Zauron]

some people make the mistake of making the level layout and then throwing in the enemies later, or worse making the levels before the mechanics are nailed down!

Really?

Oh definitely, I've seen it on more than one occasion.

[[RM8]]

Are you the only one from the Shinobi team working on this?

[Zauron]

Are you the only one from the Shinobi team working on this?

Nope, both members of Crazy Viking Studios worked on Shinobi.  Kris was Lead Designer and I was Lead Gameplay Programmer.

[[RM8]]

Awesome. I bet this is going to turn out great too 

[alastair]

If you haven't played Ultimate Ghosts and Goblins yet Zauron you should definitely play that, its awesome.

[Miguelito]

(gym explanation)

Welp, shows how much I understand about game and level design.

Sorry, seems like I completely misunderstood. Then again, you should probably consider the fact that a lot of people out there might be just as intellectually challenged as myself, and perhaps show some short, but specifically designed courses in an update - or just slap a big "TEST LEVEL, DO NOT ENTER" on the current footage.

Good luck, I'll be watching this closely!

EDIT: And congratulations on making your goal in excellent time! Now hire more of everything!

[Tuba]

Well, if the level art will still be made.. you just got my money!

Also, the gym idea is very good, gonna use that for my next game.

[Zauron]

(gym explanation)

Welp, shows how much I understand about game and level design.

Sorry, seems like I completely misunderstood. Then again, you should probably consider the fact that a lot of people out there might be just as intellectually challenged as myself, and perhaps show some short, but specifically designed courses in an update - or just slap a big "TEST LEVEL, DO NOT ENTER" on the current footage.

Good luck, I'll be watching this closely!

EDIT: And congratulations on making your goal in excellent time! Now hire more of everything!

No, dude, the fact that you noticed how terrible the gym would be for a real level means you are quite observant!  I tried to hide it in the footage by only showing small pieces of it at a time and hoping people would be too busy looking at the game mechanics to notice the level layout, so its a fair critique to say that I failed in that regard.

I would have rather waited until we had a final level with all the enemies detail-drawn (Kris draws them in stages, they start as boxes to prove out mechanics, then motion sketches to get animation timing and basic shape down, and finally details like shading, outlines, etc) and final level art to make the video (and hero 100% completed, some of his animations are due for replacement as well now that his mechanics are all functioning), but we calculated we couldn't finish the game without some more funding and didn't want to continue dumping so much of our own time and money into something that maybe no one would even be interested in.

I put a little thing in the beginning of the footage that said it was in-development and does not reflect final game, but given reactions to the BG art and now the gym's design that was likely insufficient.  Lesson learned for next time!

[edh]

Well, if the level art will still be made.. you just got my money!

Also, the gym idea is very good, gonna use that for my next game.

If I'm not mistaken, Miyamoto does the very same thing, only he calls it "garden" instead of gym.

Good luck with the project Zauron, it look it will feel really old school and that can be a great thing

[Sharkoss]

Really like the mechanic where you can jump on to your spears

I really liked it more when it was called Fishbane

Nobody remembers Quackshot

I am just bumping this thread because I found an earlier example of a game where you stick things in the wall and jump on them.  Nail 'n Scale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seRBpemPnNM
Probably not a great reason to bump the thread but it's a pretty fun game.