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[Gimym TILBERT]

Hi. I'm a woman and I can pretty much say that the treatment of women in video games is a bit uncomfortable to me. It makes me uncomfortable because most female characters - and I mean most, not exceptions like Chell or Jade - are created to appeal to men. But the guys in games are also made to appeal to men! Okay, this might not be how it always is, and I know there are exceptions. But on the whole it's by men for men, and that kinda irks me. (It's one of the reasons why I'm getting into game design now after so long of just being a consumer.)

I'm not going to call it anything but uncomfortable because apparently putting words to things is an invitation to get attacked, but it /is/ uncomfortable. I don't know if it's uncomfortable to all women. I wouldn't claim that it is! But it's uncomfortable to me.

I don't think that clothing our female characters is the solution to our problem, either. Yes, usually it helps! But we don't want to run into the problem of body-shaming either. The difference between a woman dressing how she likes and most video game ladies, though, is that men are the ones dressing up those video game ladies, for other men. I'd really like to see more women in the industry giving input on female characters.

That isn't to say that men can't write female characters. Of course men can write female characters! As a writer, I certainly /hope/ I can write male characters. But when creating female characters, it's very easy to run into the male gaze problem. It's even something which women face -- it's a cultural thing, not something you get when you have a certain set of genitals.

So I guess those were my words on tits in videogames.

BTW there is a lot of male swap in good female character as well, meaning that it's not so much progressive (only when you think like a men you are considered good)

[paste]

albert einstein defined stupidity by repeating something and expecting different results

sorry to be off-topic, but please, everyone stop saying this forever, even in its more often misquoted form as the definition of insanity.

please.

i beg you.

[Sean A.]

I think the friendzone is thing for men and women but it is nobody fault really, except maybe the person complaining. It can be a really frustrating situation that I have been in but I acknowledge that it was probably my fault or it was nobodies fault and it just happens. What I have found is that it is very difficult and maybe impossible in some cases to change how someone feels. People have feelings for other people that they can control. You can't suddenly decide to stop finding someone attractive and expect it to work. This is why friendzones happen, when you meet someone for the first time and you are attracted to them and are interested in pursuing a relationship with them, if they don't feel the same way then it's not gonna happen, but you still enjoy each others company so you become friends even though you always wanted to go further. Now you are in the friendzone and it sucks for you and yet there is no one to blame. It's not their fault, you can't really control attraction it just happens.

Anyway that's my two cents on the friendzone for people who say it doesn't exist.

[shig]

im serious about you needing to get dunked if you prefer money to people/feelings/hearts/etc

economists are the devil

yeah boobs bounce when you run, but do you really need to include it in your videogame in detail??

you are taking the comparison i made in order to shoot down the comparison you made in order to shoot down a point made by a guy with cool shades, and taking it out of its context and applying it to what you were talking about before the guy with the shades even came by. why should i reply to this

as for the chars with tits, it depends? It just sucks that probably all the female characters from the game are probably gonna be at least pretty

cmon shoot examples, im not that thick

examples dont matter. what matters is that you are still focusing on the tits and this entire discussion revolves around tits and is only fueled by tits and anything not about tits gets ignored. when pressed you're going to say "ITS NOT ABOUT TITS ITS ____" and then go back to talking about skimpy clothes for the next five pages.

If the problem is just tits, everything about it is quite easy to understand. If the problem is characters with a lack of agency, or lack of visual variety that isn't so complicated either, but if you really want to complain about tits all the time and tell yourself it's not about tits, this thread is all you are going to get.

Anyways, here's examples: Parasoul, Shermie, later incarnations of Blue Mary. Chun Li...?? Probably.

im gonna kill myself again bye

[AMAZON]

its not about tits, it has NEVER BEEN about tits, or at least not entirely. thats just the stupid title of the thread. anyway, as for those examples: parasoul is the exact same busty supermodel body type as every character in the game, plus she's wearing a miniskirt with no pants for no reason. shermie wears a miniskirt and has a boob window despite being in a fighting tournament. blue mary is pretty cool and is shown as muscular and tough, but she still has the unnecessary bouncing boobs. chun-li is also pretty cool, but still has panty shots and is regularly infantilised. further, all of these characters are busty, thin, supermodel looking types (aside from chun-li's legs) and really show very little diversity in general. again, im not saying these are BAD characters, just that they are marred by an unnecessary focus on sexuality that has NOTHING to do with their character.

[Rm88~]

Otane Goketsuji from Power Instinct. You win, though, it's difficult finding many non-attractive females in fighters.

[_Madk]

its not about tits, it has NEVER BEEN about tits, or at least not entirely. thats just the stupid title of the thread. anyway, as for those examples: parasoul is the exact same busty supermodel body type as every character in the game, plus she's wearing a miniskirt with no pants for no reason. shermie wears a miniskirt and has a boob window despite being in a fighting tournament. blue mary is pretty cool and is shown as muscular and tough, but she still has the unnecessary bouncing boobs. chun-li is also pretty cool, but still has panty shots and is regularly infantilised. further, all of these characters are busty, thin, supermodel looking types (aside from chun-li's legs) and really show very little diversity in general. again, im not saying these are BAD characters, just that they are marred by an unnecessary focus on sexuality that has NOTHING to do with their character.

then maybe try not playing fighting games

[AMAZON]

speed buster from no more heroes is another good example


but the thing is, if you searched through every video game you would probably only find a handful of unattractive female characters who arent witches or something like that, and while most video games arent even as diverse as street fighter when it comes to male characters, you will still manage to find a sizeable amount of males of different ages, sizes, and skill sets, while most females are still stuck being thin, traditionally attractive, and using moves which show off their hot bods.

edit:
@madk-

it really isnt any better in other genres. even if you can post a handful of positively portrayed women, there's still virtually no diversity and its still an exception rather than the rule.

[shig]

its not about tits, it has NEVER BEEN about tits, or at least not entirely.

(the rest of the post is a thousand words about how the sexyness of characters has nothing to do with them and in fact makes them worse)

parasoul is the exact same busty supermodel body type as every character in the game, plus she's wearing a miniskirt with no pants for no reason.

have you played the game? even among the attractive characters they all have body type differences beyond just breast size.

shermie wears a miniskirt and has a boob window despite being in a fighting tournament.

she's a pro wrestler thing. don't expect her to wear a gi.

blue mary is pretty cool and is shown as muscular and tough, but she still has the unnecessary bouncing boobs.

tits are bad, i know.

chun-li is also pretty cool, but still has panty shots and is regularly infantilised.

are you serious its a problem that she gets happy when she wins
 

further, all of these characters are busty, thin, supermodel looking types (aside from chun-li's legs) and really show very little diversity in general. again, im not saying these are BAD characters, just that they are marred by an unnecessary focus on sexuality that has NOTHING to do with their character.

Ok, I get that they could vary the body types a little bit more (altho you only saw 4 characters), but of course you couldn't finish this sentence without implying that them being attractive in a certain way makes them worse, automatically.

[imgay]
Otane Goketsuji from Power Instinct. You win, though, it's difficult finding many non-attractive females in fighters.

hey look at me talking about skullgirls again: peacock, double, painwheel, marie(boss character, umbrella and squiggly(upcoming DLC characters)

[Rm88~]

It's hilarious, but thinking about it one of the female characters I've enjoyed the most is Goombella from Paper Mario TTYD. She's very smart, aspires to be an archeologist and provides information for enemies and locations. All her dialogues were fun and witty, and she was very useful in combat. Of course, she's a freaking goomba, and it's not like anyone gets sexualized in Mario games regardless of gender anyway. But this thread originated from My Little Pony talk, so I guess she counts.

[moi]

I have never been friendzoned, I think friendzoning is for people who are affraid to make a move or to get rejected

[Alevice]

tits are not bad, but they are often plastered where it doesn't contribute to anythin other than having the viewers/players oogle at them. If sexuality was a personality trait and its notable for other characters, such as that DQ girl, fine. But hey, its not liek it gets addressed often. As yourself if having more clothes would detriment the character and its development.


Random semi related links

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/28289231364/toastyhat-submitted-anatomically-my-own-art-is
http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/

[Sean A.]

I have never been friendzoned, I think friendzoning is for people who are affraid to make a move or to get rejected

That's the case where I think it is someone's fault but it is generally the person who is complaining who is at fault. I kind of understand not making a move though if you see no reciprocating feelings, getting rejected can ruin friendships too.

[AMAZON]

@shig-

OK LETS DO THIS

1. the problem isnt sexy characters!! the problem is making EVERY CHARACTER sexy whether they have a reason to be or not! if ryu stuck his butt out every time he did a hadouken or had a perpetual, visible erection and it was just treated as a normal thing or "fanservice", you would feel uncomfortable.

2.
yeah, good point. diverse as fuck.

3. YOU CANT FIGHT IN A MINISKIRT, and you sure as hell cant win in one

4. do you really think blue mary has decided not to wear a bra because ITS AN IMPORTANT PART OF HER CHARACTERIZATION TO EXPRESS HER SEXUALITY, or is it because teenage boys like bouncing boobs?

5. no its that even though she's shown as serious and professional, as soon as the fight is over she turns into a literal child.

6. do you think that say, dhalsim would be a better character if he looked like ryan gosling? do you think his "ugly" appearance is a detriment to his character? also, the male gaze bullshit isnt about how sex is bad and should never be shown, its that it shouldnt be ubiquitous and it shouldn't be as ingrained into gaming as it is. i have said that so many fucking times, its not hard.

7. every one of those aside from peacock are thin, traditionally attractive, busty, and young and every character you didnt post (as well as painwheel) is half naked. its incredibly fucked up that a game with an all female cast that there's such a ridiculous lack of diversity and contains so much pandering to young heterosexual male players. I CANNOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ENOUGH: EVEN THE GAME WITH AN ALL FEMALE CAST AND A SKILLED CHARACTER DESIGNER AT THE HELM ISNT THE LEAST BIT FOCUSED ON THE POTENTIAL FEMALE AUDIENCE.

[kummerspeck]

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/28289231364/toastyhat-submitted-anatomically-my-own-art-is

one time eschergirls posted about how megaman.exe roll was a good non-sexualized design. little did they know that in japan...

conker rules