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[JWK5]

If shit borders on being innapropiate (by either vulgar content, saturation, discriminative, etc), no quality of art can make it right. It would be a finely carved turd.

Except for one problem, things that cater to one group's taste over another aren't by default evil. There is nothing wrong with a work that is geared towards "a man's tastes" no more than there is anything wrong with a work that is geared towards "a woman's tastes", sexual or otherwise.

That isn't the problem, the problem is there is too many games geared towards fairly specific tastes and not enough alternatives. The problem isn't "We need less of X" the problem is "We need more of Y and Z". We need a wide range of tastes catered to, both in sexuality and in modesty.

[Alevice]

Hence why i  mentioned saturation.

[JWK5]

The other thing is that characters are not living entities, they are ideas created in the likeness of living entities and given form as an object (on a page, on a computer screen, in a book, etc.). By default, they are objects created to appeal, they are subject to exaggeration where it will increase their appeal. It is not wrong to fashion them in a manner that is sexually appealing, to make them into a sexual object, they are fantasy, fiction.

As with any kind of fantasy how well it is received is going to come down to who and what you had in mind when you created it. If you created it for people who love sexy bodies, big breasts, etc. and that is a primary focus in your design (Dead or Alive) it makes perfect sense.

In a game where everyone is running around locked in an epic battle fully armored and ready to take a bullet, everyone except the females who just have shoulder and knee pads but somehow take a bullet just as well as their male counterparts, it makes no sense whatsoever.

If "sexy women" is part of your design play it up to the fullest unashamed, but I take serious issue when it is a game that is supposed to be serious and epic but the creators couldn't get their dicks off the drawing table.

[The Monster King]

its wrong when "man's tastes" involve reducting women to inferior characters (are you listening etC)

i dont mind some softporn games, but they should be obvious about it and not like yep, in this game about martial artist, da girls are boobies


shut up about characters being objects

they represent people

i honestly dont really mind dead or alive, because its sort of honest in its "being dead or alive"

when soul calibur 4 came out and decided to be dead or alive with swords though that was hella stupid

[shig]

If "sexy women" is part of your design play it up to the fullest unashamed, but I take serious issue when it is a game that is supposed to be serious and epic but the creators couldn't get their dicks off the drawing table.

That's just a bad game. The authors made a contradictory world, where stuff doesn't seem to fit. Imagine if someone decided to put Spider-Man and Sonic in Gears Of War.

[The Monster King]

my girlfriend just said she wanted to post your teeth out for what you said about characters being objects created to appeal, just because they are ideas

EDIT::

basically that by treating characters as objects in media, the fact that the consumer is basically bombarded by these ideas makes them think this is "normal", sort of like how beauty products set "standards" for beauty

but in this case for behavior

creators and designers should always be responsible for their stuff
because ideas convey messages

[shig]

jwk5 said those same things btw. twice, even. but i wasnt stepping on eggs the whole times with my posts and now people on the internet think im sexist

[The Monster King]

dont worry, i think jwk5 is sexist too

[JWK5]

its wrong when "man's tastes" involve reducting women to inferior characters (are you listening etC)

I hate to break it to you, but in storytelling there are inferior characters. Nearly all characters are subordinate to the protagonist and the antagonist and serve to emphasize their strengths and weaknesses. They aren't reducing women to inferiority, they just aren't giving enough female characters title roles.

I do agree, though, that it is absurd in some of the ways they portray them given the nature of some of the settings and stories they are placed in (as previously stated).

i dont mind some softporn games, but they should be obvious about it and not like yep, in this game about martial artist, da girls are boobies

Correction, the girls have boobies. They are still treated as substantial characters, even in Dead or Alive, it is just that their bodies are packaged to entice. I know plenty of women that wear sexy clothes but are still interesting people, just because they have cleavage showing doesn't mean I am incapable of recognizing they are a human being beyond that. You can dress sexy and be intelligent at the same time, you can also dress sexy and still be a good natured person. You're kind of bordering on "If it has big tits and wears skimpy clothes it's not a woman" territory there, which isn't cool.

shut up about characters being objects

they represent people

So does emoticons:           

i honestly dont really mind dead or alive, because its sort of honest in its "being dead or alive"

when soul calibur 4 came out and decided to be dead or alive with swords though that was hella stupid

Soul Calibur 4 made me throw up in my mouth a little. I loved the franchise but when that game came out it felt like a huge slap in the face from some prick who's like "Sorry, bro." Not because the game had big breasts and yadda yadda yadda, but they changed the characters explicitly to focus them on sex appeal and did it to a ridiculous level of exaggeration. It'd be like turning Katamari Damacy into a military FPS to appeal to the Call of Duty crowd.

jwk5 said those same things btw. twice, even. but i wasnt stepping on eggs the whole times with my posts and now people on the internet think im sexist

I'll probably have to say it 3 or 4 more times.

dont worry, i think jwk5 is sexist too

Or maybe you just focus on what you want to believe I mean for the purpose of forming a counter-argument rather than taking the time to actually consider what I am actually saying.

[The Monster King]

i know a lot more about stories than you do, dont condescend to me like you are teaching me something about stories
what a nerd
thats not what i meant by inferior character though
i meant it as, their motivations are literally tied to that of men


nice try for calling me sexist, but that's not how life works you semi-living piece of shit
when a character has big boobs and cleavage is one thing, but when the camera angles and artowrk zoom in over it and are like, yep, this is the character here, then at this point the character is pretty much reduced to boobies


and now you troll. emoticons represent emotions, not people.  doesnt have a story, it is just sticking its tongue out. Dead or Alive Kasumi is looking for her brother, she has emotions and expected reactions to things, even as a pretty weak character
dont you fucking pretend like you know anything about storytelling if you can't tell the difference between a character and an emoticon


soul calibur 4 was shit

[kummerspeck]

[The Monster King]

thats a very creepy way to say it, personified stereotypical japan

[kummerspeck]

no, it's hirohiko araki

so i'm pretty sure the only sentimental connection he has to the girls is a desire to pose a jojo character in their pose

[The Monster King]

your obsession with jojo is healthy

[shig]

dont you fucking pretend like you know anything about storytelling if you can't tell the difference between a character and an emoticon

The point of the emoticon comparison was to say that you don't have to form a connection with everything that represents a person, but you are being an eres so we have to explain everything because the moment you find any detail that is not quite right you'll be like "AHA GOT YOU NOW!!!!!".

By the way emoticons aren't disembodied abstract representations of feelings, but who cares.