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[Rm88~]

@AMAZON:

- Well, you can play as Ryu shirtless, which is true for almost every male in almost every fighting game. Now, I agree that unlike female characters they're not all designed to be attractive and that's the point, but still. And really, even Dhalsim has a good physique with solid, muscular shoulders and chest.

- You can't fight in a miniskirt but you can't also fight pandas or robots, or shoot fire ball from your hands. That kind of realism, well, the women in Street Fighter shouldn't even be facing the males in the first place. Rival School's Batsu fights in his school uniform because it's cool, while Shermie fights in a miniskirt because it's cool, or sexy.

- About potential female audience, I'd invite you to Tekken Zaibatsu and count all the fangirls that are there almost exclusively for fanfics and "shippings" that make the male players rage and go nuts. Not to mention, there are competitive female players who may or may not main one of these sexy-fied ladies (like Kayo Police, who mains C. Viper and attends tournaments cosplaying as her).

[Alevice]

cho aniki is how most fanservice females would look if they were male.

[AMAZON]

ryu isnt shirtless for the females to look at him though, and its not like his movements are optimized for sticking his butt and crotch out. when you see ryu shirtless you think STRONG, when you see cammy's butt you think SEXY. one of these fits fighting games a hell of a lot better than the other. same with dhalsim, he's not designed to be sexy, he's designed to look like a fighter with a focus on meditation and nonphysical means of attack. as for the realism argument, this isnt unrealistic for the sake of the character or for the sake of the world, its unrealistic for the sake of titilating the heterosexual male player, often at the expense of the female player. people dont like to be treated like sex objects, and in doing that to every female character, developers are alienating HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION. THIS ISNT LIKE A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP OR A SMALL NICHE GROUP, ITS OVER HALF THE PEOPLE IN THE PLANET.

edit: oh, btw, anyone who feels like arguing that chun-li isnt infantilised, good luck

[Alevice]

Also, athletic bodies:

http://hungrylikethewolfie.tumblr.com/post/23461876918/anonymous-asked-dear-escher-girls-when-you-redraw

[AMAZON]

here's a neat post on how that kind of exploitative sexuality makes ladies feel btw

"Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a “good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?” Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie"

THAT is what a sexualized male character would look like

[Rm88~]

Lol. Well, to be fair that sounds like a male Mai Shiranui, and even in KOF alone Mai is not the norm, if you get my point. Whip, King, Kasumi Todo, Leona, Mature, Vice, Kula, Athena Xiangfei, Malin, Hinako, Chizuru, actually most females (while attractive) aren't downright like that.

I just want to make it clear that I agree that there's a clear lack of balance in the design intention of female and male characters, but I also don't think they're all explicit fap material just because they're attractive. Dhalsim and Blanka aren't average males, they're "freaks", the "normal" males are pretty much all attractive to some point if we think female designs like Makoto are meant to be attractive.

[shig]

1. the problem isnt sexy characters!! the problem is making EVERY CHARACTER sexy whether they have a reason to be or not! if ryu stuck his butt out every time he did a hadouken or had a perpetual, visible erection and it was just treated as a normal thing or "fanservice", you would feel uncomfortable.

the summary of your commentary about all the 4 characters i posted: "its a cool character but it's sexy and thats bad!!!"
ryu is a dream dude as much as chun li is a dream girl. he doesnt stick out his butt but he does the male equivalent: his entire fighting style is doing COOL POSES even tho he is supposed to be the straight man of the cast. he and ken have by far the most absurd anatomy of SF and perpetually flexing bodybuilder muscles that can be easily seen thanks to their gi showing much more chest than usual and having their sleeves ripped for no reason other than to show muscles.

yeah, good point. diverse as fuck.

not as diverse as anita sarkeesian would have wanted but they have different arms and legs, and fillia is chubby

YOU CANT FIGHT IN A MINISKIRT, and you sure as hell cant win in one

do you really think blue mary has decided not to wear a bra because ITS AN IMPORTANT PART OF HER CHARACTERIZATION TO EXPRESS HER SEXUALITY, or is it because teenage boys like bouncing boobs?

EXTRA EXTRA VIDEOGAMES CAN BE UNREALISTIC READ ALL ABOUT IT

Does Terry's cap help fighting? Does Andy's hair do anything other than throw him into the "androgynous pretty boy" niche? What's the point of everything Iori wears? No, seriously, what the fuck??
I'm pretty sure she wears a bra but thats beside the point. Why does every female character have to be the poster child of feminist values or else it's shit??
Also, Blue Mary is not a real person and she does not wake up and think "hmm what could i wear that would make feminists on the internet feel """"""empowered""""""

no its that even though she's shown as serious and professional, as soon as the fight is over she turns into a literal child.

you're seeing too much into it. she's celebrating, man. what the fuck.

do you think that say, dhalsim would be a better character if he looked like ryan gosling? do you think his "ugly" appearance is a detriment to his character? also, the male gaze bullshit isnt about how sex is bad and should never be shown, its that it shouldnt be ubiquitous and it shouldn't be as ingrained into gaming as it is. i have said that so many fucking times, its not hard.

no, his appearance is part of his design. i dont piss on good design. i wont make ken or vega ugly for no reason, nor will i give zangief jeans and a shirt... and i wont cover every boob window and replace ever mini-skirt with pants if its good the way it is.
more variety would be cool. go make female characters that explore other themes. knock yourself out. but as long as the characters are good, they are good and that's it.
Don't diss good design cause "eww boobies". Boobies aren't bad.

I CANNOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ENOUGH: EVEN THE GAME WITH AN ALL FEMALE CAST AND A SKILLED CHARACTER DESIGNER AT THE HELM ISNT THE LEAST BIT FOCUSED ON THE POTENTIAL FEMALE AUDIENCE.

The main focus are the males, sure, but I'm pretty sure they don't ignore the females? Except for shit like DOA, obviously. I have a theory that a game aimed only at a female audience would look very different from what you are suggesting. You want a game aimed at feminist videologgers, not the average female gamer.

[ANtY]

tits are not bad, but they are often plastered where it doesn't contribute to anythin other than having the viewers/players oogle at them. If sexuality was a personality trait and its notable for other characters, such as that DQ girl, fine. But hey, its not liek it gets addressed often. As yourself if having more clothes would detriment the character and its development.


Random semi related links

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/28289231364/toastyhat-submitted-anatomically-my-own-art-is
http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/

wow, that's hell of a good blog (I mean eschergirls)

[shig]

here's a neat post on how that kind of exploitative sexuality makes ladies feel btw

"Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a “good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?” Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie"

THAT is what a sexualized male character would look like

it's stupid to think that fanservice for females would be the same as for males, but with a guy onscreen instead of a girl. Have you seen the Avengers movie? Fangirls won't shut the fuck up about Loki, while fanboys' reaction to Black Widow was much more milquetoast, even though she runs around in black leather, having occasional shots of her ass and, you know, being Scarlet Johansson.

[phubans]

I have never been friendzoned, I think friendzoning is for people who are affraid to make a move or to get rejected

Just because you raped doesn't mean you weren't friendzoned.

[AMAZON]

ok, im fucking DONE. i seriously cant just keep repeating the same things that you are ignoring the fuck out of. i cant keep going around in circles like this. an ACTUAL GIRL who clearly knows about this shit said that it makes her uncomfortable in this thread, but I GUESS SHE MUST BE A SENSITIVE BABY BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST MAKING CHARACTERS COOL BY SHOWING OFF THEIR BOOBS. DUH. have fun being a sexist asshole

[Alevice]

Yeah proper women and sensible questions are lovingly ignored, and sadly I am not being sarcastic.

[Alevice]

Obligatory repost.

Hi. I'm a woman and I can pretty much say that the treatment of women in video games is a bit uncomfortable to me. It makes me uncomfortable because most female characters - and I mean most, not exceptions like Chell or Jade - are created to appeal to men. But the guys in games are also made to appeal to men! Okay, this might not be how it always is, and I know there are exceptions. But on the whole it's by men for men, and that kinda irks me. (It's one of the reasons why I'm getting into game design now after so long of just being a consumer.)

I'm not going to call it anything but uncomfortable because apparently putting words to things is an invitation to get attacked, but it /is/ uncomfortable. I don't know if it's uncomfortable to all women. I wouldn't claim that it is! But it's uncomfortable to me.

I don't think that clothing our female characters is the solution to our problem, either. Yes, usually it helps! But we don't want to run into the problem of body-shaming either. The difference between a woman dressing how she likes and most video game ladies, though, is that men are the ones dressing up those video game ladies, for other men. I'd really like to see more women in the industry giving input on female characters.

That isn't to say that men can't write female characters. Of course men can write female characters! As a writer, I certainly /hope/ I can write male characters. But when creating female characters, it's very easy to run into the male gaze problem. It's even something which women face -- it's a cultural thing, not something you get when you have a certain set of genitals.

So I guess those were my words on tits in videogames.

[Alevice]

Triple posting because I can:

http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

[The Monster King]

hey i already posted that.

ok i dont mind you repost it

it pretty much answers to shig

with the strongest weapon

satire


also did you call painwheel unattractive?

she got a perfect bod... but a mask and ugly face. cue paper bag jokes LOL