Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411421 Posts in 69363 Topics- by 58416 Members - Latest Member: timothy feriandy

April 18, 2024, 03:26:08 AM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignReflecting on Your Audience
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Author Topic: Reflecting on Your Audience  (Read 3184 times)
adrix89
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2014, 09:58:17 AM »

there's no way adrix isn't a gamygator parody account
I am not.
For fucks sake. God. You talk like its impossible for someone here to be a GamerGate supporter.
I do not understand how all game developers have gone completely bonkers over this.

Do you even understand who your market is? Because it sure as hell is not the third wave feminists.
The people you are vilifying are your customers!
Logged
Schoq
Level 10
*****


♡∞


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2014, 10:19:34 AM »

ron paul 2012
Logged

♡ ♥ make games, not money ♥ ♡
Pfotegeist
Guest
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2014, 04:28:45 PM »

I thought about it

nobody I knew dug this
I don't know the depth
there's no way out
and it smells, it stinks

I don't know


Logged
Wilson Saunders
Level 5
*****


Nobody suspects the hamster


View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2014, 04:27:00 PM »

People using the "Its just a game" argument should think about the argument "It is just an essay." Of the two the essay took far less effort to make, will reach a far smaller audience, and will most likely have a far smaller effect on popular culture. Everyone has opinions and chances are not all of them are going to line up with your own. Thanks to the internet segments of the population we are not accustom to hearing from get to insert their opinions in spaces that they didn't used to. I see the whole gamergate thing as a less than mature response to this. Sort of like a shouting that breaks out at the thanksgiving table when your opinionated Conservative relatives meet you opinionated Liberal relatives.

It is can be an interesting exercise to think up of what another demographic would like in a video game, but I am personally not willing to risk the amount of time and effort to make a fully fleshed out game on my own for an audience I don't really understand.

I have heard the phrase "Nature Hates a Vacuum" when describing the success of My Little Pony the cartoon. There had been so few good shows aimed at the young girl demographic, that the moment one shows up a vast untapped market reaches out for it. I am looking forward to seeing the same thing happening in Gaming one day.
Logged

Play my games at http://monkeydev.com/
adrix89
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2014, 07:27:24 AM »

Quote
and will most likely have a far smaller effect on popular culture.
Why are we the thought police?
Culture moves at its own pace, why would we need to 'construct' culture in any way like in a communist country?
Quote
Everyone has opinions and chances are not all of them are going to line up with your own.
This are not some alien creatures with strange cultures.
This are your customers!
Who do you think BUYS Indie Games?
Tell me! does GamerGate BUY or NOT BUY indie games? Tell me.

Quote
It is can be an interesting exercise to think up of what another demographic would like in a video game, but I am personally not willing to risk the amount of time and effort to make a fully fleshed out game on my own for an audience I don't really understand.
Who is your audience?
You think the indie market is some kind of place filled with pure feminist gentlemen or something?
If that is so then who buys Hotline Miami?

Just because the media,critics and developers have come out against GG does not mean the market has magically changed in any way to accommodate their bullshit. It is still the same market.

I can understand catering to the gaming media like RPS,Gamasutra, etc but they will only make your games visible, the market ultimately buys them.
Logged
s0
o
Level 10
*****


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2014, 07:39:07 AM »

oh
Logged
unsilentwill
Level 9
****


O, the things left unsaid!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2014, 11:02:31 AM »

Yeah I agree with Silbereisen here. But in an attempt to shift the tone of this thread to be a tad more friendly, I'll address some of your points.

"Culture moves at it's own pace" is an odd thing to say, as if artists/designers aren't part of culture. If you take a look at history, artists often have a hold of the reigns--like it or not. It's not about being thought police, it's about introducing a new thought, and people are free to accept or reject it. Less about constructing culture, and more about questioning and affirming values. But that's slightly tangential, and assumes games should be political, which I don't have a problem with, but wasn't my original argument.

If customers are feeling abandoned by their old media, that's uh... culture moving at its own pace? An argument that comes up a lot on these forums is that "fun games will always be made" and I think that's true. Maybe with encroaching topics, there will be fun games with less potentially offensive themes, but for some reason I doubt that too. Game designers are rejecting male fantasy audiences to some degree, I guess we can argue if that's a problem or not.

The indie market is super broad, that's the point. More games made specifically for children, or women, or a different race. It's the same market yes: however, that's assuming games designers were always targeting the whole same market, instead of the most profitable one, young white males etc. By broadening the scope of your themes and characters, you're expanding the market of who buys games, not limiting it.

There is no need to fear. (Except when there's silencing of opinion on either side, but that's for Gamer Gate threads, not this one.)
Logged

adrix89
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2014, 02:29:02 PM »

Quote
"Culture moves at it's own pace" is an odd thing to say, as if artists/designers aren't part of culture. If you take a look at history, artists often have a hold of the reigns--like it or not. It's not about being thought police, it's about introducing a new thought, and people are free to accept or reject it. Less about constructing culture, and more about questioning and affirming values. But that's slightly tangential, and assumes games should be political, which I don't have a problem with, but wasn't my original argument.
You misunderstand me, artists should be able to do whatever they want without worrying about stepping on anyone's toes.
They should not worry about being banned for distribution like Hatred did, or GTA5.
They should not get flack for making a women character sexy like in Bayonneta or Dragon's Crown.
They should be able to be as violent or as non violent as they want depending on their vision of the game.
Anti-GG are the ones who are pushing everything to fit their ideological lines.

Quote
If customers are feeling abandoned by their old media, that's uh... culture moving at its own pace? An argument that comes up a lot on these forums is that "fun games will always be made" and I think that's true. Maybe with encroaching topics, there will be fun games with less potentially offensive themes, but for some reason I doubt that too. Game designers are rejecting male fantasy audiences to some degree, I guess we can argue if that's a problem or not.

The indie market is super broad, that's the point. More games made specifically for children, or women, or a different race. It's the same market yes: however, that's assuming games designers were always targeting the whole same market, instead of the most profitable one, young white males etc. By broadening the scope of your themes and characters, you're expanding the market of who buys games, not limiting it.

You do not understand. GamerGate is broad, they are the market, they don't just buy COD or whatever, they also buy Indie Games. In fact PC Gamers are probably the predominant driving force behind GG and Indie Gaming.

You think the followers of Anita Sarkesian is your market?
They don't buy games, there are in this for the ideology.

We can all dream about the uncharted untapped markets, but show me the statics, are they really there?

People who buy RPGs? Who do you think are likely to be GG or not?
People who buy platformers? Who are they? GG or not?
People who buy roguelikes?
People who buy strategy games?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/232790/Gamasutras_Best_of_2014_Leigh_Alexanders_Top_5_Games.php

This is what they want. There is nothing wrong with those games(except the Kardashian one),This War of Mine is on my personal game of the year list, but we know pretty much what women want as games(as in their are actual statistics) so we know what the feminist critics would want.
Narratively focused, more casual non-competitive experiences.

And that is fine. But is it the audience for your particular game you are making?

I cannot imagine in any way why would developers would be dismissive of  any of their audience, GG or not.

Maybe they have personal or ideological reasons for it, but even then at the end of the day you would still have to deal with the devil they consider if you want to be profitable.

UPDATE:

You may think I am talking out of my ass here but lets take Steam as an example. If you are an Indie I don't have to explain what Steam is, you live or die by it.
http://store.steampowered.com/curators/#p1
Pro-GG subscribers:
TB            +386k
Nerd^3        +93k
/r/pcmaster   +79k
Cox list      +69k
Total         =627k

Anti-GG subscribers:
PC Gamers     +150k
Jim Sterling  +91k
RPS           +78k
Total         =319k

It's not a perfect list since there are some that I don't know their position on,probably neutral, but this should give you at least an idea.

The list also is not a representation of your market and how it can help you individually.
For example RPS does a lot more promoting of Indie titles, and while everyone would dream of being taken up by TB and he does take Indies form time to time, it probably won't happen.
That is one legitimate problem with the new youtube media promoting, the more potential audience they have the harder it is to get picked up. In articles you can be more broad since you are under the brand of a site not individual personalities.

However the numbers don't lie, it is stupid to dismiss a huge chunk of your audience.

Also if you look at The Cox List you will see that its not just COD crap.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 12:31:28 AM by adrix89 » Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic