Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

878802 Posts in 32936 Topics- by 24348 Members - Latest Member: PenicillinGamez

May 22, 2013, 05:02:01 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperFeedbackadventure rpg "Cohorts of Kargonar"
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Author Topic: adventure rpg "Cohorts of Kargonar"  (Read 1634 times)
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« on: August 15, 2012, 06:07:23 AM »

Hello dear game testers

I've been working on a fantasy adventure rpg called "Cohorts of Kargonar". We've put a lot of effort in it, had our launch on the 1st of May and worked and improved it continuously. The thing that makes me a little sad is our horrible user retention: 50% of all players leave after 5 minutes or less, only 20% play an hour or more.

I would really appreciate if you could give the game a try and tell me your experience or even better what made you close the tab and do something else.

It's free, easily accessible and you don't even need to register. Play it on http://www.ck-game.com.

I'm really looking forward to some answers since we have no clue what makes people quit so early.
Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,
Doidel


EDIT:
We got so much great feedback! Here's our thank you video for you guys, see what your feedback has already accomplished!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 02:23:45 PM by Doidel » Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 11:18:52 AM »

Maybe a screenshot to get into the mood?
There have been 40 view and 1 new account. Can it be that the game is not appealing at all in the first place?

Still looking forward to some feedback!

Logged
DeadPixel
Level 2
**



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 11:55:27 AM »

So, here's my feedback.  My tone won't be light.  Not to be insulting or to make you feel bad, but to try and help you directly and honestly.

The #1 thing sticking out for me is your About the Game page.  I'm not going to take the time to signup and play the game if it doesn't sound interesting, and unfortunately that page has a lot of text that doesn't actually tell me anything about why I would want to play it.  You use a lot of generic and ambiguous language.  

Here's my impression as I parse that page:

  • Why are there quotes around "Collect"?  Am I only sorta collecting?
  • No quest log, etc which I'm assuming is some kind of dig at WoW or modern RPG mechanics.  Don't tell me what your game isn't.
  • Thrilling battles with spells and items?  Well, I hope so.
  • Tons of items.  Ok.  What's special about items?
  • Many buildings with many different abilities, etc.  Buildings for what?
  • Sound.  Really?
  • Stories which warm the heart.  Don't make assumptions on my emotional reaction to your game or story.
  • Realtime.  This is an interesting feature in a browser game.  Good point.
  • No plugins.  Also a good mention.


None of these things 'make this game unique', unfortunately.  You are failing to capture my interest, and make me have that moment of 'oh, neat, I want to try that!'  I can't throw a rock without hitting an RPG with quests, items, buildings, and sound.

Then I scroll down and see a horizontal scrollbox of oddly stretched images which I imagine are screen shots of the game.  Below that is another stretched image.  I assume a screenshot, but I can't tell.  This is in IE8.  Not a browser I use at home, but I'm sure some people do.

Next, 'A few words from the game developer'.  Normally I would skim this at best, and more than likely skip it all together.  You've already lost me on the premise of the game (as I have no idea what that is, yet) and so my interest in reading some random words from you is nil.  However, upon reading it... HOLY SHIT!  Why is all the cool stuff I can do in this game hidden at the bottom of the page?!

  • It's a bright fantasy roleplaying game.  Ok, cool, whatever.  Generic but acceptable.
  • You play a character thru a storyline and different quests.  Said every RPG, ever.  You can do better than that.
  • Ok, so my main game goal is working on my village and what you call a cohort.  Sweet, I know what I'd be getting myself into now.  We're looking at something sim-y.
  • Ok, a cohort is a group of units + my hero.  Makes me think of tactics games.  I like those.
  • Recruiting dudes with different abilities, upgrades, and spells?  Awesome.  I enjoy customization.
  • I get to sim-build a house for everyone I recruit?  The casual in me is giggling with joy.
  • I can visit my friend's village, and show off my own?  Good, I can rub Josh's nose in my epic new fountain piece.
  • Guilds? Auction house?  Social hub?  In real time?  In my browser?  Nice!

So basically it sounds like you have an RPG that pulls in elements from tactics games, sim games, and a lil bit of Pokemon.  Wrapped all up in an easy to access medium and sprinkled with some social goodies here and there.  That's fine.  That sounds like a decent game that some people would enjoy.

You just need to tell them that!  Scrap and re-write that entire page.  Everything in my second list needs to be at the forefront.  Top of the page in large impressive lettering spelling out everything awesome and interesting about what you're offering (of which, sound is not one of them).  In a browser based game that 'About the Game' page, and your front page (which also needs to highlight what people are here to see, and direct them to the About page if not summarizing it itself) IS your 30 second demo.  I'm going to read that and already be playing the game in my mind's eye.  I'm going to WANT to play.  As it reads now, though, I just want to go back to reddit.
Logged

Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 12:20:57 PM »

Wow DeadPixel thanks a million times for your elaborate post!
Such issues are indeed things I don't notice as the guy who wrote it down. You got the content of the game right with your last sentences, my bad for failing to mention it.

So basically it sounds like you have an RPG that pulls in elements from tactics games, sim games, and a lil bit of Pokemon.  Wrapped all up in an easy to access medium and sprinkled with some social goodies here and there.
That's more or less what it is.

I'll check on IE8 then.

Thanks for pointing out the bad "About" page, I'll rework that one right away tomorrow!

Of course I'm still very interested in other people's opinions!
Logged
DeadPixel
Level 2
**



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 12:30:24 PM »

It's REALLY easy as a developer to assume that knowledge of your game is intuitive and universal.  Just remember that it's not, and to explain everything in clear and concise terms as you would to a five year old.
Logged

Panurge
Level 2
**



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 12:33:41 PM »

+1 to DeadPixel's post. More or less exactly what I thought (although I also dig the idea of no quest log or hand-holding and can see where you're coming from there). There's an interesting game here but I don't think you're selling it in the right way.
Logged

PsySal
Level 7
**


Yaay!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 01:36:23 PM »

Hey! Here is my stream-of-conciousness feedback:

- First, the game looks fantastic. The art is obviously done with a lot of TLC.
- Dialogue is also excellent, I feel like the world is fleshed out.
- The first screen had me thoroughly bewildered. I think the first thing I clicked was "auction house" to create an auction. What I expected on this screen was to be able to walk around.
- After I closed the auction house dialog I moused around a little bit, until I found the gate to exit. I suppose I just wanted to move around.
- I was glad that I could move on the courtyard.
- The battle outside in the courtyard was no problem. Movement was a little clunky.
- I finished the quest to find the executor
- Having to click the "x" or hit enter to close the dialogues breaks the flow a bit. I'd love to be able to just click anywhere on the screen to dismiss
- Walking around with arrows would be better if numpad directions worked. Once I figured out I could just move with the mouse it was no problem.
- I feel a bit  nervous about saving. I presume that since it's a web game it will automatically save but I feel uncomfortable closing or logging out.
- I like the dialogue and stories, it was for the most part clear what to do.
- The "leave battlefield" button would work better in the middle of the screen. First time it was hard to see.
- I got the roc, it was simple enough to figure out how to equip.
- I think the background that you have for the page is distracting. There are enough fabulous graphics in the game to make the page interesting, a black background would work a lot better I think.
- I strongly want to be able to zoom in "properly" i.e., without using browser zoom. The sprites are waaay to small on my screen and browser zoom feels somehow "bad"
- One one occasion I somehow managed to "select" with the browser one window, which then had a blue hue like selected text. I couldn't seem to unselect it.

Sorry this isn't very organized. Bottom line I think this could be a huge amount of fun! =) This is really impressive and don't get discouraged if people don't pick it up right away. To be honest I would work really really hard on the first few minutes that a player experiences.

For instance, instead of showing me the city (I understand that the city is sort of like a "main menu" that opens up the other windows, although I didn't figure that out until after the roc quest, when I noticed I could close the field window) at first, show the field. You've got a decently structure tutorial section, showing how to move, talk to NPCs, and battle, and then how to interact with the city, but I would streamline it even more.

Anyhow I guess my only real advice would be don't get discouraged by the lack of feedback! I had a good time with it, I think if you can just streamline things a little bit more you will have great success with it.
Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 08:30:42 PM »

I am totally in your debt guys, some of your feedback blew my mind! I can't wait to start coding and improving! Let me notify you here when I reworked the about page.

@PsySal Nevermind it's messy, the feedback is great! Unfortunately some of it I can't change, e.g. the resolution of the graphics. There is a zoom-in and a zoom-out on the top right of the map window to just soom in/out this one window and not the whole browser window. It's still browser zoom though..
Frankly, you're supposed to be lead directly to the map and not first struggle around with the auction house, etc. That oddly seemed not to work in your case, I'll have to take a look at that.

Again many thanks guys, you turned my demotivation into a super-motivation! Beer!
Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 10:48:49 PM »

DeadPixel, I was so inspired by your post that I actually copy pasted some of your wordings, I hope that's ok!
I reworked the home page in a way I believe is more appealing now. Can you guys give me a statement whether it's better now and what's there still to improve?
http://www.ck-game.com

DeadPixel, did you not click on the trailer when you first entered the page? Did you go to the about page directly?

Many many thanks and all the best,
Doidel
Logged
PsySal
Level 7
**


Yaay!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 11:05:39 PM »

Frankly, you're supposed to be lead directly to the map and not first struggle around with the auction house, etc. That oddly seemed not to work in your case, I'll have to take a look at that.

I wonder just now if it was maybe a popup blocker or something? I'm running Firefox on Linux with a number of ad blockers and stuff..... Not too sure!
Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 11:33:09 PM »

Hmm you were able to open the map, so I guess it's not that.. did the introduction start? Where Sam talks to you and you have to click "Continue" like 5 times? Afterwards the map should appear, right after you clicked "Continue" for the last time. Is it there where you clicked "Continue" and the map did not appear?
Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 11:44:24 PM »

You talked about the first few minutes. And since it is that case that 50% of my players leave after 5 minutes or less I might need to improve some stuff indeed. Question is: what  Undecided How is the audio tutorial at start. Boring? Yet by clicking 5 times "Continue" you can skipt it... Or should I add a "skip" button? I'm proud of the story background that Cohorts of Kargonar has, but ofc I don't want to force anyone to read it.
What did you have in mind when writing "streamline it even more"?
Logged
Haga
Level 0
**


A miserable little pile of secrets!


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 12:19:13 PM »

Hey!  Love the art in this game, deadpixel has some great feedback. 

I read your last comments and gave the game five minutes.  I'm pretty much a bro player and I don't like reading, so here's what I noticed:

+ I picked a hero, that went well.

+ I ran around the area clicking on guys but couldn't really escape or do anything.  Hovering my mouse over various pixels in the level didn't give me any information on what to do next.

+ I had a very hard time identifying people from not-people.  I didn't easily see whether or not people had anything to say to me until I ran up and stood directly on top of them.

+ There's a move grid around my character but I don't know why.

+ One of the characters is telling me to talk to the guy next to me, and the guy next him says "What are you waiting for?"

+ There's no UI or supporting elements guiding my next move.  There's a zoom in and out button at the top right and that's it, from what I can tell.

+ I have a thirty inch monitor and all the pixel detail is causing me eye strain.

I'm using Firefox with no-script, so maybe it's blocking elements or something.
Logged
PsySal
Level 7
**


Yaay!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 10:15:24 PM »

You talked about the first few minutes. And since it is that case that 50% of my players leave after 5 minutes or less I might need to improve some stuff indeed. Question is: what  Undecided How is the audio tutorial at start. Boring? Yet by clicking 5 times "Continue" you can skipt it... Or should I add a "skip" button? I'm proud of the story background that Cohorts of Kargonar has, but ofc I don't want to force anyone to read it.
What did you have in mind when writing "streamline it even more"?

Hey! Sorry took me a couple days to check in here.

Unfortunately, I can't recall exactly now what I saw when I started, but maybe something like:

1- After character creation, I saw the screen showing how to zoom. (possible this was before.)
2- TBH I can only vaguely remember the introduction. I feel like I did see the intro.
3- After this, I saw the city screen. I clicked the auction house, closed it down, then clicked the city gates to (at the time it seemed) exit the city.
4- On the map screen, I believe dialogue did come up immediately explaining how to move around, i.e. the tutorial section. This part was fine generally!

As for ideas to streamline-- you guys will know best how to approach this, even if it takes awhile to figure it out, so I don't want to poison your best ideas with my surely off-the-cuff and mediocre ones. That said, here is how I might approach it (take with huge, huge grain of salt)

1- Moving around is satisfying. You have a well-realized world, with interesting things. The "standard" way to open an rpg, and I think it makes sense, is to let the player just move around at first. So maybe this takes place in an area before the courtyard. Give them something interesting to explore, maybe they can start in a tower or something like that, and end up in the courtyard.

2- Once in the courtyard, have a bit of exposition setting up your story.

3- Don't do combat in the courtyard. The trouble is the combat is always going to be, in a sense, a negative action-- something you *have* to do, a challenge to overcome. This is what combat tutorials are so cumbersome. The motivation is very small.

So let's say, player starts off in barracks or tower of some kind. Messenger arrives and says to get down to the courtyard. At this point give the player some small rewards if they explore the tower. Explain at this point how to move around.

They reach the courtyard. At this point give a little bit of exposition in terms of who your teacher character is (I'm sorry, don't take this negatively but I just can't remember his name-- I really liked this character and having him around to help with battles from the very start feels really good!) At this point, you are instructed to leave the courtyard.

Now, this is a larger change. But rather than return immediately to the city to learn about all the buildings by searching for the assassin person (again I'm sorry-- I also can't remember the exact term, but I did like this segment as well generally) go out on a short mission that just involves some combat. You can have them ambushed somewhere nearby, and then basically do your combat tutorial there. This is much better because well, now there is something AT STAKE in the combat. It won't feel like a tutorial even though it is.

At this point, player will finish the mission and already have some experience and rewards under their belt. They know movement, NPC interaction (say they learn this in the courtyard) and the basics of combat. Now, it's time to return to the city.

At this point, have the segment where you are searching the city for the assassin.

IN CONCLUSION!

I'd say, in a way you have a very focused early game, which is good. The problem is that it's too *dense*, I think. You are showing the player first movement, then NPC interaction, then combat, and then as soon as they leave the city, you are sending them right back in to (presumbaly) learn about the different types of buildings. Added to this is some background information abou the world.

Again, all this is, on it's own, good (excepting maybe the combat tutorial as I mentioned before) but I think you will do much much better if you just spread it out. Don't forget that the player will learn by doing, as well. So you need to give them a chance to actually engage in some things. Imagine if by the time they return to the auction house or the pub they have a reason to want to buy/sell the loot from their first mission-- suddenly these buildings are a lot more interesting.

Okay! Again, please do take with a huge great big gigantic grain of salt Smiley These are just my thoughts, because you asked, and because I think there is great potential here. If even one of these ideas is helpful in some sense I will feel good!

EDIT: scrolling back, I see you had asked about the audio intro. Unfortunatley I played without audio so I can't weigh in on that. However as I said I can't remember the intro that well.
Logged
Doidel
Level 0
**


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2012, 11:28:51 PM »

Thanks for your feedback, all! We've learned quite a lot with your input, we'll definitely make some adaptions (we do not know which ones yet, we'll have to look into it a bit further).

We've also thought about making the interface easier, and e.g. the map as the first, main view. And get rid of the city. But, anyway, many thanks for these last 2 posts, they help greatly understand what you were experiencing!

@PsySal thanks for pointing out your idea, I hadn't understood before that the information was too dense, as you described it. Your post is really great!

All the best,
Doidel
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic