next »

[Fifth]

Okay, so a genre-shift is something that happens in some games, as it switches from its own genre to one that is substantially different.  I've noticed it happen a lot in games that, to put it nicely, try to be everything.  It can be a stage in a game, or else some kind of minigame or sub-game.  It can be done well and gracefully, providing a neat twist to the game, or... it can be a difficult, painful thing that the player just doesn't want to have to deal with.  Ever.

So, when does it work?  I'll cite a couple examples I've come across...

Gunstar Heroes has one of my favorite genre shifts, from run-n-gun platformer to space shoot-em-up.  Of course, the genres are arguably fairly close.  Just remove gravity and you're going from running to flying.  Gunstar Heroes succeeds in this shift largely due to keeping its whole weapon system intact.  It's one of the most distinguishable aspects of the game, and it follows you right into this stage; your weapons still act as they would have otherwise.  Beyond that, the other concepts still remain: you're still moving down soldiers, it's still co-op (the satellite was a nice touch), you can still pick up health and weapons, and the jump button still (almost) jumps.  Heck, even the explosion color-coating is the same.  It's a new take on the game, but so much is carried over that the player has almost no problem adjusting.

Viewtiful Joe is another shift I respect, and it's mostly similar to Gunstar Heroes'.  It's a platformer beat-em-up turned shoot-em-up, a slightly greater stretch, as you don't normally shoot.  But again, it takes the game's core aspects and carries them over.  "Punch" and "kick" get equated to "shoot" and "bomb", while the VFX powers still have the effects they once did, as the player would expect.  Slow-mo will enhance attacks, mach speed will allow rapid attacks, and zoom-in will give you fancy attack moves equivalent to your platforming abilities.  You can jump right into the stage without missing a beat.

...Okay, so those two are fairly similar, but the idea is the same:  keep what makes the game unique, make equivalents for what you can't keep, and keep the other mechanics close enough that the player doesn't have trouble adjusting.  A genre shift can be a delicate thing, and can help shake up the game if done right.  You just have to remember that it IS the same game you're making.

And of course, it can be done badly.  It seemed like a rule of PS1/PS2 era 3rd-person platformers to include one or two racing/skateboarding/flying/what-have-you minigames apiece.  And they typically have little to do with the actual game, aside from being this unwieldy block that you just have to deal with to progress.  Your skills in the main game don't carry over to the minigame; they really feel like distinct games at this point.

Beyond that, it's also important to acclimate your player to the change in a environment where he can get used to it, moreso if the change is particularly harsh.  I've seen games (like Sword of Vermillion on the Genesis, or Sparkster on the SNES) where you're put up against a difficult boss, and suddenly, without warning, it's a completely different game.  It's like you show up for the final exam and look at the paper only to realize you've been studying for the wrong class entirely.  And it's a rather daunting thing to have to deal with.

Anyway: genre shift.  When has this worked?  When has it not?  Thoughts on how to do it right?

[Muz]

Spore didn't work It tried to be everything but ended up too shallow.

[Derek]

I really liked the shift from platformer to sim/shooter (and vice versa) in Actraiser. The platforming is definitely the meat of the game, but the simulation portion adds a lot to the pacing and the feeling of being a god. When you enter a platforming section there's a sense of excitement and purpose that you don't find in traditional platformers. Likewise, a simple town sim is a lot more enjoyable when you can uncover real dungeons and power-ups.

Actraiser 2 dropped the sim portion, of course, and it really does feel like a missed opportunity.



http://www.flyingomelette.com/reviews/snes/actraiser.html

[moi]

I like the concept of genre shifting at least on paper and I can't imagine the concept being disappointing to me, unless of course the game is completely bad, but this is another business.
I can also understand that some people don't like the idea at all, in fact I didn't like the idea at first but it sort of grew on me to the point where I am now where I consider that every game should have a measure of it.
but it's definitely an acquired taste.

In the old wheel of time game , and in unreal 2: both those FPSes had part when you suddenly were in some sort of tower defense game with turret placement.

[Azure Lazuline]

Another example similar to the ones in the first post: GB Zelda games, which have side-scrolling sections as well as the top-down ones. I think it adds a lot of variety, and all your equipment still works, although maybe changed a bit due to the perspective.

I would argue that RPGs as a genre almost by definition have genre shifts - half the game it's top-down exploration and NPC interaction, half the game is menu-based battling (or a more unique system, like Battle Network). Some games like Yume Nikki toy around with the idea of an RPG with no such shift.

[Hima]

Tokimeki Memorial also did this and it becomes one of the selling points in the game.

When you're dating a girl, you can run into bad guys and you'll enter a battle scene that is similar to Final Fantasy. The game is dating sim that allow you to build up your character like studying science or language or practice sport. All these parameters are then used to determine your parameter and skill in the battle scene. It sounds ridiculous but it ties up nicely and surprisingly fun! Especially when the girl also join the fight along with you.

Later they improve this battle system and even make it mandatory and tie to the story. In Tokimeki Memorial 2, Akane's big brother is the leader of a gang in the town. He doesn't like it when you date his sister and will constantly send his subordinate to disturb the date between you and Akane. Later you'll have to fight him in order to get Akane's ending.

Tokimeki Memorial case is pretty interesting, since the game itself is pretty much a visual novel/parameter management simulation. The game's theme is also far from RPG, yet they manage to integrate it nicely and help make the game more interesting, since the simulation/dating part can be a bit repetitive at times.

[Maud'Dib Atreides]

paradigm shift

an opportunity for me to use my newly sharpened vocabulary. nicccee.

[Derek]

Oh yeah, Recettear is half sim/half dungeon crawl and its a pretty decent little game.



But yeah, thinking more about it, genre shift is a nice way to pace a game and build anticipation for something. It helps when the theme ties the two genres together tightly.

Most RPGs switch back and forth between two sections that are very different - one where you're battling and one where you're buying/selling items and conversing with townsfolk. Aside from giving you a chance to take a break, each section gives you ways of preparing for the other section. In towns you buy items to prepare for battle and in battle you earn gold to buy more items with. It's a positive feedback loop that feels quite nice if both parts are done well.

(EDIT: My bad, I didn't see the part where Azure said the same thing.)

Plus having different aspects to the game can make it feel richer.

[JobLeonard]

Another example similar to the ones in the first post: GB Zelda games, which have side-scrolling sections as well as the top-down ones. I think it adds a lot of variety, and all your equipment still works, although maybe changed a bit due to the perspective.

It's especially fun considering there's jumping in both sections (with the Roc's Feather). I think it works because it's more a perspective-shift (literally: from top-down to side-scrolling) than a genre shift.

[C.A. Sinner]

three games that do this really well are: gta, star control 2 and pirates. guess you could add deus ex to that list as well.

basically the trick is to integrate these different gameplay modes into a cohesive whole, so the game becomes more than just a minigame collection. in the games i mentioned the different game "modes" all have strong effects on each other. in gta, they're tied together so well that people hardly notice they even exist.

negative examples:

spore: shallow minigames have to be completed in a certain order, transitions are abrupt, not much interaction between modes other than the herbivore and carnivore stuff and the fact that your creatures look the same. the "galactic adventures" expansion made things worse instead of better

metroid other m: perspective changes are gimmicky and don't add anything of value to the game other than looking kinda cool the first couple times they happen.

[moi]

bayou billy

[Muz]

I like the concept of genre shifting at least on paper and I can't imagine the concept being disappointing to me, unless of course the game is completely bad, but this is another business.
I can also understand that some people don't like the idea at all, in fact I didn't like the idea at first but it sort of grew on me to the point where I am now where I consider that every game should have a measure of it.
but it's definitely an acquired taste.

Don't think it's really a matter of "taste". There are not a lot of 'purists' who care that much about sticking to a genre, as long as it's a fun game.

To me, it's just about whether I enjoy both genres. Like I don't really play platformers, so if a game switched from being an adventure game to a platformer, I'd be rather annoyed. But since I play both business games and RPGs, I consider a game like Recettear fun.

And another problem could be that they change the pace of the game. Like I hated playing Half-Life 2 and Price of Persia because they would switch into puzzle mode in the middle of the game, which kills the adrenaline, IMO.

[™]

Policenauts ( Saturn ). Part adventure game, part light-gun shooter.





Physically changing between the controller and light-gun felt refreshing & powerful

[McMutton]

Skies of Arcadia's usually gameplay is your typical random encounter turn-based RPG stuff. But at certain points, you engage in these awesome, aerial ship-to-ship battles.

They have a lot more strategy involved: You have to set up all of your actions at once, so you need to try and predict what the enemy will do. There are also some points where you have to decide on a course of action to position yourself in a good position:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMgNXrW7UQU

[Azure Lazuline]

That reminds me of Rocket Slime, where most of the game is Zelda-like adventuring and combat, while collecting items and saving slimes. But every once in a while there's a massive tank battle, where all the items you collected are used as ammo and have different effects. It's still technically the same controls since you're moving around in the tank and throwing items (into the cannons), but with much different resulting gameplay. It worked really well and most people say those battles are the highlight of the game.