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1027668 Posts in 41235 Topics- by 32851 Members - Latest Member: suetx2105

July 28, 2014, 06:34:39 PM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackPlaytestingProcedural NES Metroid game - cancelled
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Author Topic: Procedural NES Metroid game - cancelled  (Read 3644 times)
Quicksand-S
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2012, 04:14:03 PM »

Yeah, if you're already doing animation/poses in 3D, it might make sense to go farther and set it up in-game if you feel like doing all that work.

In addition to benefits like being able to adjust individual bones and smoothly transition between animations, you could use the same skeletons/animations for multiple entities (although tweaking the animations slightly for different characters might be a good idea), switch out heads/limbs/armor, etc.

Yep. Sounds good. Lookin' forward to the next version.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2012, 08:54:41 PM »

OK! It's been a while. For the zero or more people who have been waiting at the edge of their seats, got a lot of new stuff added in the latest build (04a - download link is in the first post):

 * A full inventory system
 * 14 items (for now, a lot more planned)
 * A crafting / recipe system
 * A stats screen with wins/deaths, and discovered items, that persists from game to game
 * A screen to view the full automap
 * Pausing (whoa!)
 * Random crates with loot
 * A bit of rebalancing (to the extent possible with one enemy type - more enemies / bosses are next on my list I think)

Interested to hear any feedback - a lot of UI stuff was added, let me know if anyone runs into trouble / confusion there. And also any thoughts on the items, art, sounds, controls, overall fun, etc.

Cheers -

-Luke
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2012, 11:17:40 PM »

Hello again. I'm going to try for a less wordy approach this time.

Things I Liked:

-the crafting system UI is pretty good
-the ammo replicator is an idea I don't think I've seen before
-the pause before he lowers his arm after shooting is good now
-more interesting room designs - I especially liked one with a lava pool in the middle and pits on either side of it. Maybe you should add more connections like that, with multiple pits/doors/whatever leading to the same area
-crates are a good addition
-pressing Shift to open doors - when I saw the limited ammo, I thought for a while that you'd broken the game Tongue


Things I Disliked:

-limited ammo for the main gun - ammo replicator sounds great for "special" weapons, but I feel like in a game like this you always need to be able to attack somehow (so you can get health, or special ammo, or whatever).
-the fact that the HUD shows your ammo count twice. Why is the larger icon+ammo box there?
-not being able to use arrow keys to switch between inventory, map and option pages
-I think crates should be drawn behind the player
-I walked through a door and an enemy was on top of me when I reached the other side - their positions should probably reset or at least move away from doors slightly
-One room section that has platforms near the ceiling over lava. It's too easy to bump your head and fall into the lava, and you die almost instantly because of how little health you start with.


It's starting to feel like a real game now. I didn't expect you to add crafting. It's an intriguing addition. I'm really interested to see what sorts of enemies/bosses you come up with.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 12:46:16 PM »

Hey Quicksand-S, thanks for the playthrough & suggestions. Just incorporated a few of them (latest build link has them):

 * Infinite starting ammo: I went back and forth on this while designing, but you're probably right that infinite ammo for the starting weapon is best, as a fallback. I was thinking of how I used to enjoy old Doom WADs where you had to be super miserly with ammo to make it through. Anyway I weakened the damage a bit to compensate.

 * Room debug info: I added some text at the bottom to show current room name (took me a bit of thinking to figure out which room it was you mentioned)

 * Enemy reset in doorways: had this on my list a while - didn't think of resetting them to starting position though, that's a nice solution - that's in now

 * Crates in background: I set crates to behind the player again - unfortunately the little blue light shines on sprites in front, giving a slightly weird effect - but it's not too bad. Right now lighting is all done in one pass so can't target/exclude specific objects; might add some flexibility later if it doesn't hurt performance too much.


RE: the larger icon, that's your currently armed weapon/item - a little redundant if the weapon's in your quickslots up top, but helpful if the active weapon's hidden in your inventory, which is likely later in the game. Does that make sense? I might try to clarify that in the UI somehow.

RE: arrow key tabs, that's an interesting idea - might help with gamepad control - were you thinking the cursor would move to the tabs as an intermediate step as you're moving to the quickslots up top, and allow changing tabs with right/left?

Will revisit the lava bridge map - the jumps are makeable, but might ease it up by moving the platform down 1 tile. The UI elements get in the way up there a bit too.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 12:53:00 PM »

BTW, been having a lot of fun playing We Want You - unlocked the "hero's legacy" and "live" modes so far, haven't beat them yet (if they're even beatable?). Giant sky lasers and laser dudes keep kicking my ass.
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2012, 07:00:16 PM »

I'm glad you implemented infinite normal ammo. A melee attack would have been another possible alternative, but maybe not much fun to animate.

It's crazy, but I only noticed now that your gun disappears when you run. Is that just an limitation of your sprite setup? Are you still considering using the 3D models in-game at some point?

Room debug info is, I think, going to be very helpful. I had an issue with LavaPools3...but died and went looking for it again, only to forget what the issue was. lol. LavabridgeV is great. I love the split vertical rooms like that.

It's nice to see that health pickups are in the game, but they seem incredibly rare.

Bug report: When I entered LavabridgeV from the top right, I got damaged even though there was nothing there. My guess is that an enemy was there and hit me BEFORE its position was reset.

...WIN! I SOMEHOW BEAT THE GAME JUST BY ENTERING A ROOM! NICE! lol. I like that.


Glad you're enjoying We Want YOU. Smiley
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Reggie
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2012, 07:16:36 PM »

If you hold up while running against a wall and shoot, he won't point the gun upwards.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2012, 08:26:58 PM »

@Reggie: Oops, bullets out of his head Smiley. Thanks. Fixed that. (see current build link, 4c)

@Quicksand-S: Thanks -

RE: Animations: the way I had it, while running, jumping, etc. the gun only showed while the fire key is held down - just updated the code to add that delay you suggested for the standing shot to all poses - let me know if that looks better. Re: 3D player model, would love to do that at some point, especially so different items, etc. can change your avatar ala Binding of Isaac. But I'll probably wait a while on that, until the gameplay's on better footing - it'd be a lot of art & tech work.

RE: maps, there are some hard-to-make jumps on LavaPools3 that require jumping while halfway off the block, was that it? Too hard maybe? Been worrying the game's too easy, but my perspective there is a bit distorted obviously.

RE: energy powerups, just doubled the drop rate from 10% to 20%, hopefully a little more forgiving for non-guy-who-wrote-it players.

RE: damage in doors, I came across that too - fixed now hopefully - player should be immune to damage during doorway transitions.
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2012, 10:52:18 PM »

The game's not particularly hard overall. Most enemies can be easily avoided, and most of the jumps aren't too bad. My only issue, difficulty-wise, is that some levels are set up in such a way that if you do somehow miss a jump you'll die because there's no way to get out of the lava in time. That's just no fun and feels unfair whenever it happens. Ideally, if I act quickly enough in any situation like that, I should be able to escape with my life (assuming I had a decent amount of health).

I expect that adding more enemy types, and maybe some more environmental dangers, will help the difficulty level.

As for LavaPools3, I think that was it. It's not a bad idea to require near-perfect jumping in a platform game. I just didn't like that lava killed me so quickly and that I start the game with such low health.

On a slightly related note, it'd be good for testing if there was some way to play the same game multiple times (ie. give the testers control over the random seed used, or something like that). Would that be possible?

Also, some rooms seem to be really dark. I don't know if that's a product of random tinting or something intentional, but I find that it kinda ruins the atmosphere in a lot of cases.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2012, 12:32:20 PM »

Cool - just uploaded a build with a "Debugging" option in the main menu, that allows setting the random seed - that should be useful for future testing.

Also boosted starting health to 40, so should allow 4 hops into lava before dying, hopefully enough to escape most lava situations.

RE: the dark lighting, that's set manually per-corridor at the moment; I plan to have some pitch-black areas later that require lighting items (flares that stick to walls, suit lamps, night vision buffs etc.) to navigate effectively. But until then I should probably lighten things up in places.

Thanks as always for the feedback, it's been really helpful.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2012, 12:17:38 AM »

Alright - gave my poor brain a much-needed break from programming and have been working on some music tracks for the last week or so - the latest download (04e) has some music accompanyment - If anyone gets the chance to give it a playthrough let me know what you think of it. I've heard the track too many times while creating it at this point, so I'm not sure if I like it or not anymore Smiley. Might still need a bit more detail & refinement, but the main structure is there.

Got a bunch of other random song bits and pieces on my hard drive that I haven't developed into full tracks yet - we'll see if they still seem interesting down the line - my eventual plan is to have different music as you progress to different "biomes" or large areas in the game, so you're not stuck listening to the same track for too long.
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2012, 08:53:03 PM »

I actually missed an update? Weird. Anyway, I downloaded the latest one and I can't play it. I get a "CLR20r3" error related to the XNA framework. I think I got that with one of the early versions too, so you may already know how to fix it.

Anyway, Music1.wma sounds decent. I really liked when the strings came in, but I felt like the other instrument faded out too early, so there was a section in between where the overall volume seemed too low. Also, that whole intro section doesn't compare to the rest. The intro was just kinda boring and seemed to be trying too hard to be Metroid-like. I really, really like everything after that initial part.
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2012, 10:48:51 PM »

Oops - I deleted that factory background sound at the last minute to reduce the file size, and looks like I broke the build in the process. The latest 4f build should be functional again. Glad you were able to reverse engineer it and listen anyway Smiley. Agreed on the intro, I'm not liking that synthy pad sound at the beginning especially - I'll give the whole track another pass soon, maybe add some more little subtle background sounds for texture.

Just added a chiptune item-pickup riff and pause for the larger item rooms, for a little added drama - also a less-annoying sound for the smaller pickups (health drops, etc.).
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2012, 11:32:38 PM »

I didn't have time to play long at all, but I think the music fit ok for now. It really seemed to emphasize the lack of "life" in the environments, though, I think. There was this noticeable contrast between the interesting music and the bland, not-particularly-detailed environments. I imagine that will be improved with time, though.

Gyaaahh! You included one of the only things I hate about Metroid: the fact that it pauses when you get a powerup and you have to wait to move on. That's always frustrated me in Metroid games. I long for a "skip this and get on with the fun stuff" button. Tongue
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QuadrupleA
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2012, 12:17:03 AM »

Interesting re: music liveliness - we'll see how it comes together as I add more to the game & environments. I do feel like certain parts of the music (e.g. the trumpet swell) are a little over-dramatic given the game thus far, might cut those out. Even the violins are pushing it Smiley.

I kinda like the little pause and music riff thing - it makes finding items seem more significant - I know what you're saying too though with the annoying delays, I'm generally against that type of thing (e.g. unskippable cutscenes).  I'll see how I feel down the line, I'm gonna be playing it a million times so I'll probably be the first to get sick of it.
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