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[digitalni]

For some time now I've been considering how to start making a game. Namely a top down shooter. I have some experience in programming and modding, but I'm nowhere near making my own engine.
I've started writing a game design document, talked to a couple of people who might be interested in starting a new project. The main problem I'm facing right now is where could I start making the game. I've considered Game Maker and Unity. I don't know what other choices are there. I need a way to quickly prototype a 2D top down shooter, and then expand it as I learn new techniques. Can I please get some advice on what to do?

The game would be a Top down shooter with survival and rpg elements. Includes day/night cycles, food, flashlights and environmental hazards. Also has crafting, breaking down and upgrading of items. Intertwined levels that form a larger map the player has access to, but needs special equipment and must find alternate ways to get there.
The game would also have a survival mode, and possibly Co-op. In survival, the player would get cash with which he would buy weapons, equipment and ammo.

These are some of the things I'd need:

Camera control (mouse follow etc)
Player control (speed, stances)
sprite handling
character animations
weapon holding
particles and effects
Level transitions
Savegames
Game difficulty
Story/Questing
Dialogue
Item spawning
NPC spawning
Inventory system
Crafting
Moddable game resources
variables in .ini files (object parameters, movement speed, ammo count etc)
graphic resources in separate folders
sounds
language files

[epcc]

try to start with something simpler, maybe a pacman clone or something. this kind of project is way too ambitious for a first game.
both gamemaker and unity are ok, but you will learn a lot more using unity.

[digitalni]

I'm not interested in making smaller games. I already did a lot of space invaders/platformer clones in flash. I want to learn some advanced stuff. My plan was to get the basic mechanics going on, with a simple map and just a couple of monsters to shoot at, like crimsonland. Then sort out the inventory system, level transitions and animations for the main character. I'm not saying that I have to have a big game right away, rather that I am moving toward a long term goal.

[digitalni]

Wherever I try to get some advice, I get blown off. Nobody seems to know anything.

[FemtoKitten]

We get a lot of posts like yours, to be honest... there are even talks of making a meme based on posts like this.
(Stolen from HoundNinja)

[digitalni]

I don't think I'm a game dev. I'm a gamer and a web developer, but making web apps with Ruby on Rails is quite different than making a game engine to handle graphics, collision and the like. That's why I need an environment or an engine in which to build a game. I can handle the game logic part, at least I think I can. That's why I'm asking for a starting point. I have some goals and I want to know what could be powerful enough for some advanced stuff later on, when and if I get to that. I don't wanna start with game maker, only to realize I can't do some things and I've wasted time.

[Geti]

You can do basically anything with game maker or unity or straight C and gdi given time and expertise. What epcc was getting at was the fact that you need experience with smaller things before you can make bigger things.

For your particular problem, it depends on your actual experience. If you're actually a seasoned Web dev then unity should be simple for you, you can use javascript and your library of programming knowledge to build basically whatever the fuck you want, since unity covers all the bases and you'd have the experience to tell it what to do to make that happen. Pick up a tool and start working with it. It doesn't matter at all which one you pick because you'll learn transferable skills wrt programming and game design.

People might blow you off because you're asking which of two extremely accessible game development Systems to use for a fairly straightforward game. As FemtoKitten said, there are a lot of people out there who have a lot of 'wouldnt it be great if and not a lot of 'heres what I've made and it's awesome'.  Just make your game, both of the tools you've mentioned are fine.

Flixel, flashpunk, construct, stencyl,  love2d and  Starling would also handle what you say you need.

[digitalni]

That's an answer that I needed. Javascript support is a plus for unity. I've mentioned game maker and unity cause those are the only ones I know that have a bigger community. I'm open to other ideas of course.

As I've said already, I will start small, but I want to have a project that I can work on and expand over time. So, starting with a simple arena shooter, I'd expand on by making an inventory system, then adding an NPC vendor, adding another level and so on. The only thing I'm concerned about is making it moddable.

[Geti]

Don't do the whole 'moddable game' thing for a first project. It's a massive undertaking, and will take your focus off the game itself.

[digitalni]

I guess you're right about that part. I feel like it would be a good diea tho, down the line.

Edit: What about Torque 2D and Neo Axis?

[Geti]

I have no experience with them and haven't heard much raring support from anyone I'm associated with. If you're going in with little to no experience, picking something with a more active community would be well advised

[digitalni]

Is there anything similar to Evac City tutorial for Unity, only in Javascript? I tried it in C# but the controls aren't working. I don't know if it's because the tutorial is old or something else.

[Oskuro]

Don't brush off the idea of implementing simpler games too quickly. You can start by building simple things, and then expand them into your target project.

For a top-down shooter, implementing a basic Pong gives you the following:

• Input Handling
• Drawing to Screen
• Moving Objects
• Basic Collisions

An Arkanoid/Breakout clone would add destructible elements, and powerups. By then a simple sprite swap could result in a basic prototype for your game.

I find the incremental approach very desirable when you have little experience, as it is easy to get lost in the planning stages, and end up overdesigning.

[ASnogarD]

You should still take things a bit slower... even if you manage to battle on and make your dream game you will still run into the wall called 'exposure'.
'in a sea of shovelware, will anyone hear a good game drop ?'

There is 2 reasons why people advise new people to make small games first:

1) Develop a set of tools and code you can use as stepping stones to more ambitious tools and code.

2) Develop a name for yourself, if you make small but well coded and nicely polished game people will remember you and will be curious to see what else you code later.

My personal path currently is :

- Went C++ route (hard), c# may of been the better choice, ah well.
- Decided on SDL for 2D
- Made a simple game to get the first game eagerness out of my system (6 months work = 16 relies and about 20 odd downloads)
- Making a harder 2D game that emphasis controls, while I develop some tricks and techniques (Currently at this stage)
- Making a more ambituous 2D game with a mechanic I want to experiment with, and upgrade to SDL + OpenGL in a 2D game.
- Experiment with a 3D topdown view game with some mechanics of the game I want to make
- Make THE game  .
 

[digitalni]

What about flash engines. I know my way around actionscript 3, but I'm a bit skeptical about multiplatform support.

[jonbro]

flash punk or flixel will probably serve you just fine.

Also there are plenty of people doing cross platform in flash these days. See superhexagon, cardinal quest, these robotic hearts of mine, I am sure there are others.

My recommendation would be to just grab whatever is closest and start banging out this game. If you can make it to the end, you should be able to handle porting it to other platforms. I made my first game in game maker, but pretty quickly picked up other tools.

My second rec would be to do a jam game first. See what it actually takes to make something before embarking on your masterpiece.

Or just start working on your masterpiece, just make sure to take it off the pedestal first :D

nvmnd, read your earlier posts. Yeah, you can do all that stuff in flashpunk, unity, or gamemaker. I would use either unity or flashpunk, the crossplatform support is better.

[digitalni]

Thanks, I was actually quite proficient with AS3 a while ago. Even got an award at a competition once.  I guess I haven't thought about flash and actionscript when it comes to games because I was making applications and websites before. I'll check out cross platform examples, it seems like a good idea these days.

[Royal Den Studios]

Personally I would go with game maker, the studio version is now free and the pro version gets a 50% discount every now and then. Its easy to pick up and it programming language (GML) is easy learn mostly because its similar to other languages. It should only take you about a week or so to get core mechanics done such as movement, shooting, Different types of guns, some levels. And maybe even more (This is based on how I work which is about 1-2 hours a day so your result may vary!) You don't need to start small, but start small with your game.( you need to read this part unless you understand what i'm saying) As in don't expect it to be a triple-A game just yet. Even if you finish it and it looks like a 8-year old made it. You can always make more. Oh and if you want the game to be 3D (Which is sort of a big step in the developer world) then go ahead and use unity. I've personally haven't had any good times with it but who knows. You might like it. Oh and i'm not sure if unity has this but game maker has a built in source control(For working in teams)but its only for the pro version I hope this was worth your time.