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[Danrul]

This comes from a bit of a wish of mine; to find a good stealth platformer.  I have searched far and wide, but I find that no matter what, they don't live up to my expectations.

So, in this topic, if I get a response, I want to talk about what makes a good stealth game, any good examples of sneaky-deaky games, and what we all love personally about the genre.

For me, I love the idea of sniping.  Just the idea of taking that shot, silencing that guard, and avoiding detection.  My favourite example is a particular level in Call of duty 4, All ghillied up.

Another example is Team Fortress 2, and the spy.  The game itself isn't particularly stealthy, but its infinitely rewarding when you sneak onto the battlements on 2fort and back stab a group of snipers.

So, lets get talking.

[moshboy]

I would personally love to see some the ideas out of Thief or Riddick taken and demade into a platformer, like pressing yourself up against walls in dark areas to avoid detection or sneaking up behind and snapping the neck of or stabbing someone in the back. A game based around doing this with a mixture of exploration would be perfect.

[Renton]

I would personally love to see some the ideas out of Thief or Riddick taken and demade into a platformer, like pressing yourself up against walls in dark areas to avoid detection or sneaking up behind and snapping the neck of or stabbing someone in the back. A game based around doing this with a mixture of exploration would be perfect.

Why, have you played Trilby: The Art of Theft?

[moi]

I would personally love to see some the ideas out of Thief or Riddick taken and demade into a platformer, like pressing yourself up against walls in dark areas to avoid detection or sneaking up behind and snapping the neck of or stabbing someone in the back. A game based around doing this with a mixture of exploration would be perfect.

Like trilby?

[moi]

I would personally love to see some the ideas out of Thief or Riddick taken and demade into a platformer, like pressing yourself up against walls in dark areas to avoid detection or sneaking up behind and snapping the neck of or stabbing someone in the back. A game based around doing this with a mixture of exploration would be perfect.

Why, have you played Trilby: The Art of Theft?

Hey you win this time. you see, you're not always fail 

[Renton]

A rare yet exciting and gladdening occurrence!

[William Broom]

If you're looking for a good stealth platformer, I recommend Oddworld 1 and 2. There's a lot of puzzle/platforming as well, but certainly a nice amount of stealth-y mechanics. Plus they are just awesome and you can get both for 15 bucks on Steam.

On the topic of creating stealth games, I also like the idea of sniping. If I had gotten into Game Maker a bit earlier I probably would have made a game for the VGNG called 'Zombie Sniper Project'. I imagine a 2D, top-down game kind of like Hakaiman except with much bigger environments and the ability to 'drag' your view away from your character in order to snipe people.

Also, there should be a game with a chameleon protagonist. There just should.

[Danrul]

Hmm.  I think that platforming and stealth go hand in hand.  If the player has no options to go higher or lower, then they meet the opposition head on, so you basically get owned.

Though, that semi depends on the situation.  In Hitman and Assassin's creed, its all about blending in with a crowd.  IN a 2D platformer, the crowd situation won't work, as you have to show them on a singular plane.  However, killing people and stealing their outfits is a possibility.

Me and my friend had an idea once, where you are invisible in the shadows, so you have to try and make more shadow.  Its sorta basic on paper, but imagine grenades that create darkness, moving things over the lights, simply shooting out the lights etc.  but, I feel that even this is merely a dramatic version of shadows = hard to see.  Its basically pretending that I'm the first one to think of shadows making you harder to see.

Also, an un-capitalized opportunity could be seen in multiplayer stealth games.  Does anyone know of a game where stealth is captured efficiently in multiplayer?

[Zest]

I know the later Splinter Cell games have a Spies Vs. Mercenaries mode that is supposed to be quite thrilling.

[William Broom]

Phantom Hourglass?

[Danrul]

I enjoyed Phantom Hourglasses Multiplayer, but I thought it was really more a case of pissbolting everywhere.  Still verily enjoyable, except when people quit before you officially win.

another question.  How much of a stealth game should be environment based?  for example, should walking on different surfaces be a big deal, should you be able to climb on everything, etc.

[William Broom]

I think stealth can go two ways. In Abe's Exoddus, say, there is exactly one way to sneak past each enemy. You have to follow the correct steps like a dance, or you die. This is reflected in the frequent checkpoints and one-hit KOs from every enemy.

MGS goes in the other direction, giving you lots of options of how to approach the game. You can sneak past guards, kill them silently, get into a huge firefight with them, and more depending on the situation - I remember a point in MGS3 where you could traverse the entire section undetected by putting on a crocodile hat and swimming under the water.

So I guess environment based stealth is more emergent, like MGS, and less structured like Oddworld.

[Danrul]

I guess that's where the Assassin's creed engine really has its benefits.  Any handhold that's 10 cm out you can grab onto, so really, you have practically infinite ways of movement. However, in Assassin's creed, you are limited to melee weapons (save for throwing knives, which aren't that deadly anyway) so when it comes down to it, you end up having to walk around as normal anyway.

As for something like Nikujin, which despite its action focus is more fun played trying to avoid detection, I think that the precision needed works well.  I dream of a Nikujin/bionic commando cross breed, with the platforming awesomeness of both and also the resounding difficulty of the two.  Procedurally generated levels + that spiffiness = recipe for a delicious stealthy game.

As for emergent gameplay, I think that is possibly one of the greatest aspects a game can have.  I think that's why so many games boasts of their physics engines; simply because things like Half Life really show what can be done.  A well implemented physics engine can truly make a game worth it.

I guess it comes down to how you wanna play.  A game where everything plays by rules will have to be well designed so as to bring out the gameplay's benefits.  Trilby: TAOT springs to mind, because everything will always  be familiar, you just have to find the correct path to do it.

The concept behind Assassin's creed however, is similar in some ways, but is infintely more intuitive.  If you see somewhere you want to go, go there, and from any position, take out the targets.  Its (supposed to be) open-ended and refreshing, allowing you to sift out the minutia of playing through the level to know the path, but also leaves you open to get lost. 

[Renton]

Also, there should be a game with a chameleon protagonist. There just should.

You know, this gave me a pretty cool idea of a game in which you are a chameleon on the hunt. You slowly advance from tree to tree, changing colors, waiting, trying not to get spotted by your hunt, which would be locusts, mantis and other insects, as well as small birds and other lizards*.
^{*Thank you Wikipedia.}

When you move, your color stays the same, when you stop, your color slowly takes the color of the background. The more different the background color is than yours, easier for the hunt to spot you.

[William Broom]

For some reason, I actually imagined that you could manually switch colours  :D