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[Y.u.a.n]

I had a background on GP2X (Korean open handheld), which I loved, with Wind and Water: Puzzle Battles, but there wasn't that much good indie talent (like here) represented in it. A total shame because I really thought it could have been the perfect console for indies only, specially when the F200 (a white version with super screen, much better sound, and *some* of the issues resolved) came along.

Now comes the OUYA, which seems to have mixed opinions here. I am kinda interested in it. Of course, there is always Android, etc., but I would really like to see a unified (wait dun crucify me yet) console for indie projects (which I know come in all flavors).

Kinda like [INDIE Entertainment System] and [IndieBoy].

Do you think such a thing could ever exist? Would be dope if we could design our own USB controllers, and the scene in Japan would participate.

[Danmark]

You made Wind and Water: Puzzle Battles? Cool. How was the GP2X dev experience?

I really wanted a GP2X for ages, but by the time I had enough spare change for one, the PSP was around the same price.

And that's the thing: there's so much stacked against deliberate open platforms for games, versus closed platforms backed by mountains of moneybags, & it ain't just talent. Gonna go out on a limb here... full-time development leads to better games. There are a few cool original games in the PSP homebrew scene, but they're constrained by the fact that there's no potential to profit, so the devs could only work on them as strictly on-the-side projects (although Sony snapped up hombrew devs at least once). Most homebrew is just ports of PC games and emulators.

So what an indie console needs is a thriving marketplace, where people other than indie devs spend money aplenty on software, as they do for closed consoles. Hence the problem.

An indie machine needs big market penetration. GamePark never seemed to attempt this, nor the Pandora guys. Ouya did and made a good show to start with, receiving tens of thousands of preorders, including hundreds for devkits (all largely thanks to a low price point). It remains to be seen whether they can keep it up & make a successful platform (I suspect not). They've enough developer and consumer confidence for now, but they need to keep it up for the months & years following release. It's not even clear they'll hit the release date.

Anyway, if you want an indie machine, just throw your weight behind Ouya. Most of the criticism was like it won't come out / will be too little too late / all the games will suck / nobody will buy games / will collect dust after months / nobody will buy it. Such concerns are valid, though they result inevitably from seeing such an ambitious project with healthy skepticism. Any hypothetical [INDIE Entertainment System] and [IndieBoy] would fare no better. Ouya is thus far the most plausible indie machine. No point fragmenting an as-yet nonexistent market.

If nothing of the sort ever works out, there's always PC and Android. Gaming doesn't strictly *need* consoles.


I'm curious, how much did you make off W&W on GP2X? What penetration did you achieve? IIRC it was one of a handful of commercial titles for the handheld, and if you knew GP, you knew W&W.

[moi]

One of the problems of Handhelds is the autonomy, after a while you  become bored of recharging it all the time, and the attraction of moving it with you isn't so  great. Well it's good if you're young and travelling in mass transit.

There is also the PS VITA and android, but I'm starting to have a physical repulsion for touchscreens

There is XBLIG but it's for paying games only and microsoft either ignores the devs or acts like a fucking police state there.

OUYA might be a good contender, but I tend to believe it's not going to be released for reals.

[Golds]

Do you think Indies have/need a console?

No. Consoles are dying. Handheld consoles make less and less sense in a smartphone world, as you can see by the declining sales of Vita and 3DS. A handheld indie console would present even more of a niche market and there'd be no hope of a developer recouping costs on such a platform.

Besides this, there's a chicken and egg problem. No one will buy an 'indie console' unless their is a killer game library, and no one will develop for one of these niche systems unless there's enough of an audience to make it worthwhile.

[Aedion]

That's not true, just confine the console to 8-bit and people will go crazy over it.

[Rob Lach]

That's not true, just confine the console to 8-bit and people will go crazy over it.

That is totally the wrong direction. You wouldn't want to make a console where it's many times more difficult to make games for.

Not to mention high-end 8-bit processors are more expensive than low-end 32-bit ones nowadays. They're all used for military or industrial applications for which you'd have to write everything in assembly for.

[vinheim3]

I don't see the point of indie games on consoles when the usual low quality fits the pc due to online flash games.

Also, something tells me the Ouya is just going to be the next OnLive, an interesting concept that will die out due to not really being all that useful, and just gimmicky.

[Radix]

Ouya is thus far the most plausible indie machine.

Not the console indies need: the console indies deserve.

[Y.u.a.n]

WnW did okay, we also had a super indie Dreamcast release, which helped it a lot. WnW was basically for the love of game making. We took it very seriously and even went as far as to include a certain amount of software overclocking to get better performance in the battle parts.

The GP2X fanbase was generally very grateful towards it, because they considered it to be "DS" or "PSP" quality.

I know all about the smartphones etc., but there was something magical about playing it in an actual handheld console. With buttons and d-pad. Same with Dreamcast. Playing it in "240p" or "double strike" mode with and arcade stick and seeing the WnW logo in the VMU was just so cool. We actually wanted to make a VMU game, but decided we wouldn't make the deadline if we had.

Just my opinion that it would be cool to have a unified console/something you hook to the TV and a lot of indie game demos and/or free games. I guess it's computer for now (and perhaps forever...)

[Aedion]

That's not true, just confine the console to 8-bit and people will go crazy over it.

Not to mention high-end 8-bit processors are more expensive than low-end 32-bit ones nowadays. They're all used for military or industrial applications for which you'd have to write everything in assembly for.

Keyword "Confine". It doesn't actually have to be 8-bit as long as people think it is, and then you'll have the occasional user who will be able to squeeze more than that out of it with some clever hacking. It's every indie gamer's wet dream.

[baconman]

I do remember hearing something about a "Steambox," which will probably be as close to that besides Ouya you'll be getting. Native gamepad support doesn't hurt either.

[Y.u.a.n]

It'd be cool to have like, Indie Brawl as a launch title :D

I agree on the unusual "low quality", but there could be a hall of fame for some of the more ambitious indie projects.

I would like something with rather strong specs and if someone decided to do a project "8-bit", then that would be their choice.

Maybe could be something of open architecture that could be easily built by anyone.

[Muz]

Uh, it's not easy to make your own console. Hardware is really hard to start up with, and harder to stay ahead of the competition. It's kind of a ridiculous request, like asking if South Africa needs a space program. Possible, but you don't really have the dedicated resources to do anything other than look pretty.

Not sure if I'm just misunderstanding here.

[InfiniteStateMachine]

I love the Vitafor the same reason I hate playing games on smartphones. Tactile input.

I am not a fan of touch screens. Especially for gaming.

Unfortunately AFAIK there's no way to easily load non-commercial games on the Vita.

[Y.u.a.n]

Nor is it legal, unfortunately. That was the GP2X's cool thing, that you could, and it was legal.

I think touchscreen works very well for some kinds of games. Unfortunately, for high-level platforming and shmup gameplay, and many other popular indie genres, buttons and a proper d-pad are a necessity.