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[gimymblert]

I post here for subscribing further advancement great idea!

However I'm not too comfortable with certain (typical) implicit assumption made about the creation process and the birth of those trend.

And what about the role of critics which to me seems essential, for example, "les demoiselles d'avignon" had stay hidden in a cave for a decade as picasso and his friends circle they didn't think it was worthy attention for the public, it was an experimentation a rivalry between matisse and picasso (yo mamma!). It was André Breton and André Salmon with Jacques Doucet who have brought it to the public (none are painter). I know this example is loosely outside of your time period but that's also a well known case.

[AD1337]

Very smooth looking UI. Nice!

Thanks! Since the game is so much about interacting with the UI, I've tried to make it nice and readable.

I post here for subscribing further advancement great idea!

However I'm not too comfortable with certain (typical) implicit assumption made about the creation process and the birth of those trend.

And what about the role of critics which to me seems essential, for example, "les demoiselles d'avignon" had stay hidden in a cave for a decade as picasso and his friends circle they didn't think it was worthy attention for the public, it was an experimentation a rivalry between matisse and picasso (yo mamma!). It was André Breton and André Salmon with Jacques Doucet who have brought it to the public (none are painter). I know this example is loosely outside of your time period but that's also a well known case.

You raise good points. Though I am not sure what you are referring to with "implicit assumption", if you could be more specific I would be able to improve that aspect.

I would love to add everyone to the mix: critics, models, artists, buyers, dealers... There are many people involved in the art business, and if I have time they will all be included. But my focus with the game is on artists, so my efforts go to them first. I think critics could be included in random events when a painting is finished or almost finished, and they could either decrease or increase its value. Thanks for the suggestion.

I've been working on logos to help me spread the word about the game with pretty images, and this is the latest version:

You can see other attempts at logos here and here.

I just set up a site as well, though it has nothing yet:
playavantgarde.com

[kleiba]

I've been working on logos to help me spread the word about the game with pretty images, and this is the latest version. You can see other attempts at logos here and here.

I personally like the van Gogh inspired one (#3). The first two are a bit too bland IMO, remind me somehow of the title screen of a TV show from the 1990s. The problem with #3 is that the graphical aspect pops out more than the actual name of the game which I think is also the case with #7. Numbers #5 and #6 are attempts to blend between the two styles, but I find them neither here nor there.

This critique might sound overly harsh, but it is not meant that way. I just think that logo design is incredibly hard! And when you're making a game about masters of painting it might perhaps be even harder.

When it comes to a poster or even only font type, of course Toulouse-Lautrec comes to mind immediately, although he doesn't really match the period of your game. But have you considered trying something in his style for a logo?

[ANtY]

Those logotypes are sick! Awesome job there

[Ant]

Yah real nice. I agree with kleiba I'm fond of #3 and #7 the most, though the A in your choice would make a good thumbnail logo by itself.

[Manuel Magalhães]

This game is looking really interesting. Never have seen something like it.

[gimymblert]

Well I'm not sure I want to detract you from your game and you should keep your cap first since i'm known for wall text bombing thread >.>
Therefore I will only be vague and say that I would have drawn comparison through art history and what happen with the modernist and how they haven't really radically departed from what happen before them in the practice of art. Going back to the like of Durher and Leonardo Da Vinci, taking Rembrandt art style evolution from clean to "rougher", how the composition of "the raft pf medusa" was stolen by delacroix for "liberty leading the people" (this one need more check), and how basically modernism, pushed by the threatening of photography and cinema, had to push in front what always was the main focus of artist's practice. And how the myth of the radicalization was a self fulfilling prophecy when those experimentation was brought to public by critics and the bsod and real death threats (Malevitch for example) that followed which prompt artist to further radicalize as the core "made apparent" of the practice was attacked. Basically of those movement are the ultimate conclusion of the tradition, Bauhaus is still about composition, impressionism and pointillism is still about light rendering, and so on ...

Maybe I would go on a wild tangent about art and math and how they were originally closely tied to each of other and how subtly they remained "conceptually" despite the perception people had from art, which might explain the misconception about art and how it tied back to the experimentation and the bsod reception of it and the further radicalitio of art. Funnily we are going through similar time with "video games, interactivity and procedural" which threaten perception while it is teh conclusion of the original ideal of "art".

That's way out of the scope and focus of what you are doing, it's just me overreacting to when you say "having a low form SKILLS STAT" meant better painting in "low form painting like cubism" ... HECK NO! I thought! Actually picasso was the most skilled painter drawing like chief by 14years old and cubism is not much a rejection of "form" as experimenting with the traditional representation but by trying to represent "form" from many point of view instead of a single one, which is like the next step of skills as you have to understand the form to deconstruct it and reconstruct it.

A more accurate representation is to have skills go up and allow for a skill tree like progression where new skill are experimentation, for example understanding the form is required to break off from the traditional execution and start cubism, skill would represent the artistic maturity that allow the creation of new thinking.

Even today, in art education, at least understanding (at best mastery) of previous art trend is required to graduate and start doing your own things. That was pretty much the case back then. It would be more accurate if as skill increase, the more painting target you can set, like for example "perceived form factor" (let's put that way) slider down to create cubism. Painting would be create simply by adjusting various slider with skill deciding the actual efficiency of the target and the range from which you can set that target.

For exemple before mondrian got to his famous grid you can see that he had started with pretty tame tree which got increasingly wild before setting to grid. Somewhere in the forums I have post image to highlight progression of thought and the impact on the art of some artist to show that, can't find them back. However the best book about it is "l'homme de thé", which at some point highlight some natural progression in the artist mind.

EDIT:
Mondrian's tree just before he go grid, you can see the progression happening

[AD1337]

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm keeping that logo for now, but I'll create something better if I have the time. Problem is, there's not much of it.

I updated the site a bit, if you want to check that out.

wall of text

Ah yes, this is why I like this game. It's controversial, it stirs passions. I love that you are passionate about this subject, enough to write that huge text, but you know what? So am I.

Modernism has many characteristics, and only one of them isn't enough to define it - you need all of them. But there is something at the core, something that shapes the rest: destruction. The guy you mentioned, Picasso, is the one who said modernism is a sum of destructions. By the way, Picasso was a decent realist painter, either at the age of 14 or when older, but he was hardly the best.

The question is: destruction of what? Of laws, rules, conventions, and of the fundamentals of art. I am not trying to portray modernism as a series of steps towards progress. The game shows modernism from the point of view of the fundamentals: as a series of destructions and rejections.

In the game, you witness each destruction adding up. First: form. In Impressionism, it's all about the image in the retina: a flat projection. Color is more important than form, and while form isn't destroyed yet, it is made irrelevant. The destructions go on until every single fundamental of art is gone, even the last one: expression, killed by abstract paintings that say nothing.

My portrayal of modernism is daring, controversial and full of problems. Is it avant-garde? Is it conservative? I don't know, but it's what I feel is important.

The role of photography in the destruction of realism will also be included in the game.

Thanks very much for your post, it really helps me make the game. Sorry if I seem confrontational, but trust that I'm always soaking in your suggestions.

[gimymblert]

No that's fine, I wasn't sure If I could reasonably "hijack" your thread too then I'm glad it has some useful impact.

But that's true I have a more "meta analysis" on this trend regarding art "practice" history and the fact I know too well that artists are champion of "rationalizing" their thought "after the act". This era will remain the most controversial and I don't think anyone can change that (well until the next crisis from people like David cope). However finding in this time does had freed art and since them we have perfect, reintegrate and surpass whatever idea they had back then, motion design for example or any design discipline is much more richer and expressive. I would not say abstraction had destroyed expression, some like mondrian did focus on line for line sake (thus enriching rules of composition) but other have deepen the expressiveness of abstraction (Kandisky in "point, ligne, plan", Malevitch and so many other).

Or at least it's understanding, because abstraction is not new, it's there since the beginning, look arabic culture, celtic knot, etc... If there was invention in art, I would say modernism, despite what their artists believe, was not about it, it was about rediscovery and reinvention of the old to the modern, after all the whole cubism come from exposition on so called "primitive" art, and picasso was influenced by the cuban artist Wilfredo Lam which itself was inspired by voodoo art in cuba. Basically the so called "destruction" of modernism was more about social status since art in occident was always tied to power (from the church to the state until romantism rip it by elevating the artist status, borrowing the sacred discourse to satisfied their ego and imposed their newly created social status, thus starting art for art sake free of mecenat).

Modernism is basically just this trend as justly technology was destroying the status of artist regarding representation. Text is the ultimate abstraction of image, there is no beauty in a text you can't read, that was the problem of abstraction, a problem of education (and circlejerking too), and a lot of older paintig was all about the abstraction reducing form to just a support to explore a techniques, the theme being basically a dress up because it's required by "convention" (still life is basically having a reccuring subject (vanitas) to concentrate on composition, ie the abstract skill of painting). Oh i'm doing it again, I will stop now :p

I still hope you will consider gameplay aspects I mentioned   

Whatever just make that great game

[AD1337]

Thanks for the reply, Gimym, it's very insightful. I agree with you more than you think.

I have added the game to IndieDB:


There's a news post there with the newest screenshots.

Also, I have a release date for the first alpha version: March 1st. I don't know how much will be finished by then, but however finished the game is, it will be playable then at the game's site.

The reason for a March 1st release is that it's the deadline for my master's project - the reason this game exists. Unfortunately the game won't be 100% finished as I would like it to be by then, but a playable alpha will be. The game will lack a few features, but may lack a lot of content, especially dialogues and storylines.

These dialogues and storylines will be released after March 1st in updates, as I am able to finish them. The idea is to release content by artist: the first alpha, playable on March 1st, will be "Alpha v1: Courbet", in which Gustave Courbet's dialogues and storyline should be mostly done. Other storylines will be missing, but next updates such as "Alpha v2: Manet" or "Alpha v3: Bouguereau" will add more storylines related to those artists to the game.

[melos]

hooray! Exciting. looking forward to 3/1.

[Manuel Magalhães]

That must be one of the coolest master's projects ever.

[pxl]

That's a pretty neat idea 

[gimymblert]

[AD1337]

Thanks guys!

I've been working on movement creation:

[nikolaus]

Looking forward to see how much fun it actually is to play.

I think it doesn't matter at all how accurate your whole scenario is. The pseudo-accuracy actually makes the thing interesting. The game always produces a layer of abstraction. It will always collide with someones world view about what art history or 19th century painting is. I kind of like if this is played out confrontatively. Its like the beauty of building nuclear bombs and some ancient pyramid in Civilization simultaneously.

Make sure to include some of those anti impressionist newspaper cartoons of the era!

[AD1337]

This is a big gif. It's the (completely made up) dialogue in the 1863 Salon de Paris, showing how the Salon des Refusés came to be. A bit on the comedy side.



Known bugs: there's one instance where "Player" isn't being replaced with the actual player name.

[gimymblert]

lool remind me that gif with world war 2

[AD1337]

A button that gives you reference for the background paintings and when you click it searches it on wikipedia:


A lot of historical artistic movements added:

[AD1337]

New image for paintings in Avant-Garde. The back of a canvas is a recurring representation of an unknown painting (see the background!). Also added icons for Salon results (R for refused and medals):