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[Impmaster]

Hey all. I downloaded dwarf fortress, opened it... and closed it. The interface is far too confusing. After reading a tutorial or two, I vaguely know how it works. I was just wondering how many people here actually know how to play it and how long it took them to learn?

[s0]

i do. i knew the game for about 2 years before actually getting into it. i learned how to play it when i was down with the flu and had nothing better to do lol. you really have to devote a day to figuring out how everything works. the game is a lot harder to learn than it could be because of the bad interface of course. but i think it's worth it. DF is probably one of my most played games ever.

p.s. it REALLY helps if youve played traditional ascii roguelikes and some of the more complex management sims like the settlers, anno or tropico before.

[Impmaster]

Think the guy making it will ever make a better GUI, or is it one of the "features"?

[Impmaster]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think it would be a cool idea to make a community developed version of Dwarf fortress without the annoying GUI? Like, a version with the same amount of functionality, but easier to learn. Someone makes a framework, then it is basically a collection of hundreds of mods? Sound cool, or am I missing some big thing that would make the entire idea moot?

[Ben_Hurr]

According to the retarded fanbase it's a "feature", but it really makes doing even the most mundane of tasks a total pain.


To answer the OPs question I know how to play, and it took awhile.  But even once you do its still a pain in the ass.

It's like you have this really amazing game similar to dungeon keeper, but I have to play it with no mouse

and broken fingers

[moi]

it's a bit like linux, if linux was very good underneath, but I can't tell about that

[Impmaster]

Hey, Linux is great! (When it doesn't break.) 

[Capntastic]

Not everything is meant for everyone and that's fine.

[nikki]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think it would be a cool idea to make a community developed version of Dwarf fortress without the annoying GUI? Like, a version with the same amount of functionality, but easier to learn. Someone makes a framework, then it is basically a collection of hundreds of mods? Sound cool, or am I missing some big thing that would make the entire idea moot?

I think you'll be faster enjoying dwarf fortress by just getting over the gui-thing. (then waiting for a non-existing community to clone a huge complex beastly indie-game ) speaking of clones, there is Gnomoria wich has a more noob friendly GUI (basically it's dwarf fortress lite with floating nested windows), which is quite horrible and fiddley. Just get over it like a man, do some old-school programming on the command line and you'll get it. And you'll be faster then any mouse gui..

[Impmaster]

I think you'll be faster enjoying dwarf fortress by just getting over the gui-thing.

I know.... I just am so frustrated at the unintuitiveness of it all. DF has at least 3 different types of menus. Each time I open one, I have to look at the bottom just to navigate...  But it's so good!

[Aik]

Good interface is very low on the list of priorities, because there's a large enough fanbase that doesn't care about the interface and keeps giving him money regardless, and it would probably take a while to make an actually good interface.

But yeah, I know how to play. I choose not to these days because DF is a massive timesink. Play it with the wiki open underneath and refer to it often.

[nikki]

yeah it could be a bit better, just try to memorize the keys, you'll be very fast in the end.
 

[s0]

Good interface is very low on the list of priorities, because there's a large enough fanbase that doesn't care about the interface and keeps giving him money regardless, and it would probably take a while to make an actually good interface.

also the game IS an alpha and is getting a constant stream of new features so he would probably end up having to completely redesign the interface several times over.

i wouldn't recommend any of the "clones" because they're all either bad or unreleased but i CAN recommend just checking out the management genre in general.

[Muz]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think it would be a cool idea to make a community developed version of Dwarf fortress without the annoying GUI? Like, a version with the same amount of functionality, but easier to learn. Someone makes a framework, then it is basically a collection of hundreds of mods? Sound cool, or am I missing some big thing that would make the entire idea moot?

Not unique idea.

DF visualizer:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/

Straight up DF clone with nice graphics:
http://gnomoria.com/

Also yeah, the default controls for DF is bad. The community develops a lot of tools to get around every kind of control, including tiled graphics if you don't like the UTF8.

And the problem with actually someone building a full GUI mod for DF is that it changes too fast. Otherwise the developers themselves would build a GUI for it.

[s0]

merged posts from fight thread pollution into this thread. no need to have the same discussion in 2 different threads.

[Ben_Hurr]

>nooby interface
>get over it
>not everything meant for everyone

what

We're not even talking about learning the game, or the game being too difficult guys, we're talking about it not even remotely having an interface suitable for what you need to do to play.

Unfortunately it probably won't be fixed until its done because the game changes too fast, and since it will never be done the way Toady is going, it will never have a proper interface. 

[Fegon]

also the game IS an alpha

People tend to forget that.

It´s a massive and very complicated game. I think it would benefit from a better GUI too, but it would still take alot of time to learn how to play. The retarded fanbase consists of people who have spent enough time with the game to reaize the wonders, horrors and humor it gives back. And keep giving back even after hundreds of gameplay hours in a way that I realy never felt in any other game do. But no its not the most noob freindly game out there and probably never will be because it is a very big game, even at this stage.

[Muz]

Yeah, I don't actually play DF anymore, but I get along with the community very well, because of the same taste in games. I was probably one of the first people to sign up to their forums, back in the Slaves to Armok 1 days.

Took me about a week to understand DF, and I was used to complex ASCII type games.

It's actually a very mainstream game, IMO. Minecraft was built off a similar style. DF goes into far more depth (no pun intended).

Think the guy making it will ever make a better GUI, or is it one of the "features"?

Toady One puts it under serious consideration, even mentioned that he plans to make it full 3D in the future (even though nobody asked for a 3D game). It's in its current form because it's the fastest way to develop it. When he 'feels like it', he'll probably branch out a graphical version for kicks.

[Ben_Hurr]

Full 3D?  Holy balls.

Time to check back with DF in year 2020.

[s0]

Toady One puts it under serious consideration, even mentioned that he plans to make it full 3D in the future (even though nobody asked for a 3D game). It's in its current form because it's the fastest way to develop it.

iirc he thinks delving into graphics and mouse interfaces too early is what killed the first armok and he doesn't want to repeat the mistake.

it's actually a smart decision, development wise. the roguelike i'm making right now has a mouse interface, but i didn't implement that either until i had all the core mechanics down. ofc Df has about 100x the scope of my game so it'll take forever until toady is that at that stage.

also i guess the reason he's been able to keep going for so long is that he prioritizes things that are fun to make for him.

i mean the interface itself is awful, no question about it. i'm just saying.