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1043067 Posts in 42258 Topics- by 33914 Members - Latest Member: pietro

September 17, 2014, 05:32:59 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsFinishedPapers, Please [Available 8/8]
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Willowcat
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« Reply #520 on: May 04, 2013, 07:22:38 PM »

I was reading this, and I had a few ideas of my own that I'd like to share:

1-Your uncle/wife could possibly acquire a job part way into the game, providing a temporary source of extra income, this could later be offset when you have to start paying for your son's education.

2-Maybe cold weather could be a small mechanic, as the newspaper could warn that snow is coming that night or something (increases the cost of heat that night)

3-Personally I think that the game needs a few more corrupt/dangerous figures, ie: a fleeing Republian leader (Rebulia times anyone?) or maybe someone who arrives without an entry permit, and points a gun at you if you mention anything. Should you wait to long, you may have a high amount of medical bills to pay that night...

4-Lastly (and maybe someone can confirm this for me if it's already a thing) I think there should be more options for things like, well, *cough* *cough* censorship... Tongue I really don't mean to be 'that guy' but I really think this game would do better if it at least had the option...
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TheVerveNerd
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« Reply #521 on: May 04, 2013, 07:32:11 PM »

Hey everyone, VerveNerd here! I would like to share with you a 20ish minute Youtube video I've produced detailing some Papers, Please gameplay and explaining exactly what this game is all about. Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO42DVqm4gQ
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TacoDeBoss
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« Reply #522 on: May 05, 2013, 03:50:45 AM »

Just registered to post. I don't really have any suggestion or anything, but I wanted to say that I didn't even know how to detain people when I found things on them, or help people when they left me notes until I read this entire thing, I always just denied them/ignored their notes. I guess it was made pretty obvious and it was my fault, but you might want to look into a way to tell people you can select the parts of the picture. Or just tell people not to be fucking idiots like me. Roll Eyes
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Impmaster
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« Reply #523 on: May 05, 2013, 04:14:40 AM »

The sheer amount of manbabies in this thread is astounding.
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Nebula268
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« Reply #524 on: May 05, 2013, 04:34:26 AM »

The sheer amount of manbabies in this thread is astounding.

I imagine that most, like me, will have created an account to give feedback when they clicked the DevLog link on his site.
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Pilot, Racing Driver, Military Strategist, Destroyer of Planets, Border Control Officer, Soldier, Rocket Scientist. I have been all of them thanks to videogames.
babac
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« Reply #525 on: May 05, 2013, 05:57:23 AM »

Registered to TIG just because I like this game so much. Smiley

I'm posting just to state I'll happily shell out money for the final version of this. As soon as I watched My Word! do a WTF on it I was hooked, and actually trying it out was basically like entering a time machine to early 90's and playing again on my old 386 PC with its orange monochrome screen. Smiley

A few questions about the game in its current build (if noone minds):

1) Is there a benefit to pointing out discrepancies, especially in the early days when no detain option is possible? It seems that it only elicits a confused reply from the immigrant and wastes precious time...

2) I see that Steam preview movie shows a PG version of the game, with scanned individuals sporting underwear. Is this the plan for the final version? I rather like the way it is now - it neatly references the degrading invasion of privacy enforced on individuals by administration supposedly working for the benefit of the people, and having to scan immigrants makes the player uncomfortable (at least hopefully it should), further fitting the theme of the game. Also, there's a gameplay feature tied to it - it's kinda hard to check if someone is really male or female if they still have underwear on. Smiley While I wouldn't be exactly sad if I didn't have to watch naked fat man and grannies anymore, I still feel that the game is more consistent and has a more powerful message in the current R-rated form.

3) (more a nitpick than a question) The only thing I didn't like is checking out the issuing city. It's to fiddly and never worth the time wasted, and while it's kinda neat that the game actually rewards people for taking the time to jot notes outside of the game or actually remember stuff, I still feel the issuing city discrepancy is something most people will simply ignore and write off as some sort of a random event they cannot control. Maybe replace the names with something which could be more easily memorized via a neat mnemonic-technique, like all issuing cities from Kolechia having two words and those from Arstotzka starting in a vowel, so one can more easily notice the discrepancy without having to learn the literal names?

Again, thanks for the great game and I wish all the success in the future!
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TacoDeBoss
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« Reply #526 on: May 05, 2013, 06:30:54 AM »

I see that Steam preview movie shows a PG version of the game, with scanned individuals sporting underwear. Is this the plan for the final version? I rather like the way it is now - it neatly references the degrading invasion of privacy enforced on individuals by administration supposedly working for the benefit of the people, and having to scan immigrants makes the player uncomfortable (at least hopefully it should), further fitting the theme of the game. Also, there's a gameplay feature tied to it - it's kinda hard to check if someone is really male or female if they still have underwear on. Smiley While I wouldn't be exactly sad if I didn't have to watch naked fat man and grannies anymore, I still feel that the game is more consistent and has a more powerful message in the current R-rated form.


But obviously some people are bothered by it (even though they really aren't very detailed), so if it was just a checkbox in the options menu that defaulted to off, that'd make everybody happy.

This is exactly how it's handled now.



In general, I'll sacrifice message for practicality but it does default to 'on'.

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dukope
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« Reply #527 on: May 05, 2013, 06:34:41 AM »

@Eigen: Will you be adding Steam achievements?
Maybe. I haven't gotten the SDK yet so I'm not entirely sure how much work it is. I kinda like achievement systems so I'll probably try to do something.

@Ghost13: [uv light, criminal fingerprints]
UV seals are on my if-there's-time list. It basically depends on if there's a need to introduce a minor mechanic complication later in the game. Criminal fingerprints are a cool idea. I've already got a mugshots system with pictures but I hadn't considered just showing fingerprints. Gonna think about that.

@Schrikvis: [post-effects, terrorist attack on queue, re-using names]
After some experimentation, I found that post effects didn't work well with the low-res minimalist style I'm going for. I have lots of cool attacks planned for the final and that's all I'll say about that Smiley For reusing names, I can't think of a good way to correlate an already-used name without a full list of processed names and I don't really want to do that.

@metasynthie: [totally awesome stuff about different run styles, can't verify gender with fingerprints]
Wow! Those run styles sound really cool. I'm a huge Doom speedrun fan but never expected to see that sorta thing for my own game Smiley Some of those won't be viable when I add the escalating penalties. But it kinda gives me an idea for some achievements. Showing gender on the fingerprint card is a good idea. Will try that.

@Willowcat: [family member job, weather, more corruption, censorship]
There will be lots of scripted night-time events affecting your finances. Family members getting jobs isn't one of them, but there's similar stuff planned. I'm undecided on weather. A couple people have suggested it but so far I haven't felt it's needed. The beta is around one-third of the game so you can expect plenty of interesting and corrupt individuals to follow. And finally, there will be an option to cover up the strip-search nudity.

@TacoDeBoss: [didn't understand inspecting notes or enabling detention]
Can you tell me when/how you realized you could inspect that stuff and enable detaining? Knowing that may help me figure out a good way to teach the concept.

@babac: [interrogation, nudity, don't like issuing city]
Interrogation can sometimes lead to the entrant producing a missing document. If you don't care about that, then currently there's no difference. As a practical matter, the nudity needs to be optional. I'm totally fine giving up a little bite from the game's message for practicality. You're not the first person to complain about the issuing cities. I think TB even explicitly ignored them. Again, this is one of those things (along with the too-small desk and lack of hotkeys) that I really enjoy about the game. An inspector needs to know lots of random facts. And the only cost of not knowing is time to look it up.


If you signed up recently to post here, please check out and comment on the other awesome games in
>>THE DEVLOG FORUM <<
Eigen's Pioneers is a good one


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MegaScience
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« Reply #528 on: May 05, 2013, 09:32:27 AM »

I remember bringing up toggle-able nudity a while back when I had someone stream the game on Twitch. Although it might have been acceptable with the adult tag in a game context, if you want the game to get seen more, having it toggled helps.
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Sean Hogan (seagaia)
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« Reply #529 on: May 05, 2013, 09:38:41 AM »

The Steamworks SDK is all C++, but I guess that will be okay because of how NME works anyways with CPP targets. I don't know of anyone who is actively doing HaXe and Steamworks (Andy Moore might have...). Let us know how that goes (if I have some future game on Steam I'll definitely be needing pointers in this area...)
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ktom
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« Reply #530 on: May 05, 2013, 11:01:32 AM »

Hi dukope,

First of all, congratulations on the game, I love it. I would definitely want to buy it, but I have a question:

Will the game be only available through Steam? I'm asking because if it will be Steam exclusive I will have to pass. I hate Steam and I refuse to use it so it would be great if there was a way to acquire the game outside of Steam.

Thanks!
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MegaScience
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« Reply #531 on: May 05, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »

I was talking to someone on Steam and thought of something which would be funny to happen in the game, even though it will never be officially added:

Quote
RoyalMilkShake: like
RoyalMilkShake: there is nudity in this game?
RoyalMilkShake: bcuz I know ids
RoyalMilkShake: dis
MegaScience: toggle
RoyalMilkShake: ah
MegaScience: choo
RoyalMilkShake: choo choo
RoyalMilkShake: here comes the train
MegaScience: *train suddenly drives through the boarder*
MegaScience: And now I quote this to the game developer
MegaScience: like "I got an idea for an extremely rare random joke event"

And then you abruptly wake up to someone banging on the gate to start taking people in.

Hi dukope,

First of all, congratulations on the game, I love it. I would definitely want to buy it, but I have a question:

Will the game be only available through Steam? I'm asking because if it will be Steam exclusive I will have to pass. I hate Steam and I refuse to use it so it would be great if there was a way to acquire the game outside of Steam.

Thanks!

http://dukope.com/

Could you explain why you hate Steam?
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Gradiant
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« Reply #532 on: May 05, 2013, 11:29:49 AM »

This is probably a stupid question, but is there any point to interrogating or detaining people who have incorrect papers, as opposed to just denying them? It takes longer that way, so you don't get to go through as many people, so you get paid less.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 12:32:00 PM by Gradiant » Logged
Willowcat
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« Reply #533 on: May 05, 2013, 12:16:41 PM »


I imagine that most, like me, will have created an account to give feedback when they clicked the DevLog link on his site.

^So true Smiley I think pretty much 80% of the people posting can probably say this...
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Kjammer
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« Reply #534 on: May 05, 2013, 02:04:10 PM »

Great Game! I played this game 7-8 time already and am able to get enough money to feed and heat my family twice. I can't wait for the full version.

One thing I would change is how the 6pm cutoff works. Make its so that it counts when you stamp the passport (using the latest stamp for multiple stampings) instead of when the person leaves the booth. Because after that your task is done, he takes the papers and leaves.

RE: The issuing city, Keep it as is. I agree that its something you should know (because its your job to know). I know its hard at first but after a couple of playthroughs I pretty much memorized which cities match which countries.

Once you figure out that United Federation is like United States with American sounding names (like Great Rapids and Shingleton) and Impor is like Japan with East Asian sounding names (like Tsunkaido and Enkyo) the rest is easy. The first thing you should memorize is that East Grestin is in Arstotzka (Because you live there) and West Grestin is in Kolechia (Its on the other side of the border)

Its not a problem because the "false cities" are issuing cities in other countries (if you know Outer Grouse is in Antegria and the passport isn't Antegian, then you know its fake). It would make it more challenging if the cities were completely fake (as in not listed anywhere in the book) or have the issuing cities change.

Another idea (related to another previous idea that I'm too lazy to search for): maybe have Republia suffer a coup or revolution and thus Arstotzka no longer recognizes Republian passports until things get sorted out. Maybe have the former dictator's son beg you to let him and his family in or they will be killed by revolutionaries.
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axelarge
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« Reply #535 on: May 05, 2013, 05:47:35 PM »

Hi there,
Many thanks for creating such an amazing game (been playing it until 4am)! Everything from the style and atmosphere to the music to the gameplay is truly amazing and I will definitely buy it when it becomes available.
That said, I am just another manbaby signing up to leave my 2 cents of suggestions, so here goes Smiley

  • I completed the beta 2 times and on the 3rd playthrough it felt a little too easy. Maybe it would be a good idea for replayability to add an unlockable "hard mode". This would add more discrepancies that are harder to detect, such as single-letter errors in names/IDs, slightly off passport designs and better seal forgeries, also weight/height checks which unless I'm mistaken are unused right now.
  • The reject-all strategy could be fixed by making your penalty amount increase with each mistake - first 5$, then 10$, 15$ etc. But I guess that's probably what you had in mind when you said "escalating penalties". If you consider adding suggestion #1, the fines might not reset completely but only decrease by 5$ or 10$ between days
  • Currently the switch to open/close shutters has no impact on the gameplay - Since you previously mentioned agitated immigrants banging against the shutters etc, I could imagine needing to close them when an immigrant becomes violent or threatening.

Two ideas that others have already mentioned but I think are really worth repeating:
  • I wholeheartedly agree that detain/fingerprint/search buttons should be free to use on the player's whims (after the day they become available of course). It would also reduce the feeling of the player being spoon-fed (which might be ok for the day when they first appear)
  • Except for the 2 scripted events, detention is less efficient than simply rejecting immigrants. Imho, there should be some sort of consequences for letting dangerous individuals go as well as for detaining harmless people too often

Edit: One thing I noticed is that I got dinged a few times for "wrong gender" when in my opinion the name and face surely matched the gender in the passport. Not sure if that might be a bug or just my stupidity


Thanks for reading and keep up the fantastic work!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 05:56:53 PM by axelarge » Logged
TacoDeBoss
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« Reply #536 on: May 05, 2013, 06:32:55 PM »

@TacoDeBoss: [didn't understand inspecting notes or enabling detention]
Can you tell me when/how you realized you could inspect that stuff and enable detaining? Knowing that may help me figure out a good way to teach the concept.

At first this wasn't exactly clear with the whole Document Forgery thing either, but I figured it out about the same time I figured out the detain thing.

To tell you the entire story, after the day where the option to detain suspicious individuals is obtained, I had no idea how to detain people unless I inspected their documents and the button popped up, which seemed to only happen for one person, so it was extremely confusing. But I remember reading up on this thread and seeing someone say something along the lines of "Instead of busting the guy with the medicine" and a while after that I did another playthrough and discovered that you could select the parts of the picture, along with the "No weapons or contraband" rule. As for the notes, I remember seeing someone on talking about the brothel help note and how you could detain the guy, and it made no sense to me until I saw another post about giving the little note thing you get to Corman Drex,(I think that was his name) which I then tried on the pimp guy, which enabled the detain button. With that said, I also support the option to let people use the fingerprint and detain buttons at their own free will.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I think why it wasn't clear with the document forgery thing for me, is because the note that you get at the beginning of the day told me about document forgery and to always inspect it, but never told me anything about using the rulebook to validate them. Also, at FIRST, I didn't even know you had to use the rulebook to spot discrepancies. I had to look it up.
The point is, I'm a fucking idiot and there's not much you can do.  Smiley
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 06:40:40 PM by TacoDeBoss » Logged
corpocracy
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« Reply #537 on: May 05, 2013, 07:58:36 PM »

I don't know if this is feasible at all due to space, but one way that might help with issuing cities is to include them on the geographical map (little dots with a small label next to them). This makes it really quick to look up and helps with learning them. Again, though, space would be a concern and it would also make the task easier... something you might not actually want to do.

As for weather, I feel like there are a few ways that it could be implemented to affect gameplay. One would simply be for mood. Having it rain with subtle rain background sounds would really affect the mood of the player. Rain could also destroy certain documents of people in line ("My work permit got wet in the rain!"). Either the documents would be destroyed or simply very hard to read or make out if it's fake or not. Snow could also work really well. Again, it changes the mood of the game, but it can also be brought into game elements. I'm thinking of scripted scenes where, say, Kolechia is in the news evicting people out of their houses during winter. Then you get people in line who are essentially homeless and need to cross the border or they will freeze to death in the cold... but they have no documents/incorrect documents. Weather could also affect the number of people in line. Right now, the line is essentially endless and if you are quick enough, even if you make mistakes, you always have the potential for more money. On rainy/snowy/cold days, there could actually be fewer people in line (people would only stand out in the freezing cold for hours if they are desperate). This puts a cap on the potential money coming in, forcing you to be more careful about who you let through or not.

Keep it up dukope! Can't wait to play the final version!
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Gila
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« Reply #538 on: May 05, 2013, 08:53:41 PM »

  • I completed the beta 2 times and on the 3rd playthrough it felt a little too easy. Maybe it would be a good idea for replayability to add an unlockable "hard mode". This would add more discrepancies that are harder to detect, such as single-letter errors in names/IDs, slightly off passport designs and better seal forgeries, also weight/height checks which unless I'm mistaken are unused right now.
Weight and height checks are used in Arstotzkan id cards at the moment. Also some of the errors are already a bit borderline hard to detect in my opinion. I had a couple of cases where the error was changing one a in the name to e or vice versa. That is just a few pixels and you need to watch very closely to notice it. I suggested adding dificulty options before to add to replayability but dukope felt that adding endless mode would fix that instead. I'm not really a fan of endless modes myself, but I can see how adding separate difficulties might make the game less simple.
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babac
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« Reply #539 on: May 06, 2013, 01:38:10 AM »

I actually like the tiny mistakes. Keeps one on the edge. In fact, apart from the issuing city thing (which I am warming up to with further replays), I must say that in the current build the game seems to get just slightly too easy too fast. On my initial playthrough I had a feeling that stuff gets piled up too much too quickly, that it was impossible to keep up with everything.. and I LOVED it. But already on the 2nd and 3rd playthrough I was swimming in money, I was regularly solving 10+ immigrants a day and I barely paid a fine or two total.

IMHO the feeling of getting overwhelmed and having things slipping up is pretty much the heart of the game - it goes well with the dystopian, depressing setting and it elicits a real, emotional reaction - you start hating those immigrants and their faulty papers, you start hating the Arstotzkan government for constantly adding additional rules and procedures, you know everything is hopeless but you still go on because, well, there's nothing else you *can* do. This kind of experience is kinda rare to video games today. However when the game is too easy there is danger it turns into one of those time management simulations where once you get into the groove you become completely detached from the game itself and you are just going through the motions, waiting to see how many levels does the game have.

Then again, maybe I'm just a sucker for high (yet fair) game difficulty, something which is so goddam rare these days.  Smiley
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