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1056611 Posts in 42912 Topics- by 34860 Members - Latest Member: ChemiKhazi

October 23, 2014, 01:18:00 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralKickstarter supporters are suckers.
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randomshade
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 12:49:32 PM »

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Why do you keep bringing the "running off with donations" argument, it's irrelevant to what I say.

Because that's exactly what a lot of people are planning to do, and is the biggest problem with the concept, on kickstarter and on that other site.

I ask out of sheer curiosity but do you have any examples of this? I agree that the above is the biggest risk of those systems, but in practical experience I've seen very little of it actually occur.
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zalzane
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 12:58:47 PM »

You're not going to see it occur until games start missing their deadlines.

Those witchhunters at reddit were the first to find such a scam project:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/sxa9b/kickstarter_scam_project_mythic_story_of_gods/
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s_l_m
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 01:03:03 PM »

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalmanga/publish-osamu-tezukas-unico-in-english-in-full-col
All I know is that Triton wouldn't have been able to be translated into English otherwise. And as far as I am concerned, I am willing to part with a little cash (even if its more then the value of the book will be in stores). Because of my emotional connection to the work of Tezuka I am willing to lose that little amount of money so other people (not to mention, y'know, me) will be able to read it. I imagine this is the mentality that the kickstarter people intended when they made the platform.

All this is just my opinion of course, but if it can get awesome things done, I am all for it.
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Malky
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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 01:03:35 PM »

Quote
Why do you keep bringing the "running off with donations" argument, it's irrelevant to what I say.

Because that's exactly what a lot of people are planning to do, and is the biggest problem with the concept, on kickstarter and on that other site.

I ask out of sheer curiosity but do you have any examples of this? I agree that the above is the biggest risk of those systems, but in practical experience I've seen very little of it actually occur.

A team of developers I went to school with seemed to do this.  They got Kickstarted, but now it's been over a year (way too long for the project they were working on) and they're not talking about the Kickstarter project anymore, but now they're hyping up something new.  It's been very frustrating to watch.
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randomshade
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 01:17:10 PM »

To be fair, 2 of the projects I've backed are late (>3 months late, >1 month late) but in neither case have they just disappeared; I still get updates from them and progress is pretty visible. From what I can tell (and of course I'm an outsider) both will still get done.

Yeah, obviously any scam project that doesn't get caught during the funding stages won't make shockwaves until it totally disappears. And since it's impossible to excise every scam during the vetting process, there is implied risk on the buyer. My experiences have all been quite positive though over the past 18 months, so I optimistically think that the scam rate will be extremely low. I'm also pretty picky of the teams/projects I back and I [wrongfully] assume that of anyone else who uses KS.

Big Edit: I had some more thoughts on this in general.

I think it an important thing to distinguish between something being ran truly as a scam and something that doesn't get completed but for all intents and purposes was attempted. The latter is simply the inherent risk involved with something like KS (or even normal video game pre-orders to a lesser degree) and why it is important for folks who purchase stuff on KS to be picky/choosy about who and what they support. The former is the much more vile and devious thing which most people consider to be the path of failure for KS. In regards to that, scams are an existential threat to KS and I cannot imagine that they would not adjust policies on the fly such as requiring specific things for different categories; such as, perhaps, a playable demo for any video game.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 08:12:54 PM by randomshade » Logged

PompiPompi
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:50 AM »

randomshade, many kick starter game projects don't even have a demo or anything playable.
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2012, 10:33:05 AM »

Maybe it got something to do with the fact that they are not selling game but asking money for development.
Also, normal people tent to like  finished heavily patched games only, and if they play in-progress alpha, they count thigs like bugs or placeholder stuff as flaws.
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2012, 03:09:47 PM »

Pompi is practicing satire right?

I mean, on an indie game developer forum, no less.

"When I make games...I make it for the cash moneys."
-Derek Yu
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Capntastic
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2012, 03:34:28 PM »

Look all I'm saying is that every human interaction should be a transaction of currency where I come out ahead, is that so much to ask?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2012, 05:26:04 PM »

the return on investment, or profit if you will, is that more of the types of games that you want to exist will exist. that's really what you are buying, you are buying a change in direction in which types of games are made and which aren't
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Capntastic
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2012, 05:32:03 PM »

But if I don't personally get monetary compensation, what's the point??
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zalzane
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 05:44:00 PM »

Look all I'm saying is that every human interaction should be a transaction of currency where I come out ahead, is that so much to ask?

I had no idea that blindly donating money to a project after watching a 3 minute video constituted as human interaction.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 05:47:28 PM »

You seem to be confusing the ideas that Some People Will Make Bad Decisions and Some Kickstarters Are Pretty Damned Awful to the point of deciding All Decisions to Support a Kickstarter are Bad

The majority of things I've supported on Kickstarter are things by people I appreciate before they ever did a Kickstarter.
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moi
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2012, 07:45:02 PM »

from what I understand, the "appbackr" backers aren't really sure of getting their money back, apprently they pledge money, which is delivered to the dev when the game is released (it's like an advance) , then the game revenus is distributed to the backers until they get their money+ a profit percentage.
So apprently, for the dev it's a cash advance and for the backer it's like a lottery, where if you don't back a succesful app, you won't get the money back.

Unless I didn't understand the system, in which case someone explain to me.

I just wanted a bit of cold hard facts  somewhere in the wall of sarcamss from capn and zalzane
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 08:00:12 PM »

It's facetiousness, not sarcasm.
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zalzane
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2012, 08:05:12 PM »

for me the line between facetiousness, sarcasm, trolling, and shitposting is just a hopeless blur
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gggfhfdh
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2012, 08:06:16 PM »

join me on an adventure wherein i begin a kickstarter to hire a russian sambo fighter to beat up pompipompi. THEN we'll see who the suckers is.
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s_l_m
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2012, 08:08:18 PM »

Well that escalated quickly.
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randomshade
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2012, 08:10:44 PM »

randomshade, many kick starter game projects don't even have a demo or anything playable.

Yeah, I know that Smiley I personally don't back anything that doesn't have a gameplay video (unless I know the team pretty well) and I'd suggest the same tack for any other folks interested in supporting something on Kickstarter.

What I've been trying (and failing) to say is that KS and similar can/could be things that are extremely empowering for game developers but that it's up to us, the legitimate developers, to shape and mold the system in such a way that it doesn't turn into ScamVille. As such, simply writing it off as a fad/bubble/stupid is the kind of inaction that adds negative pressure to a [relatively] fledgling service and decreases its potential for actual good.

Full disclosure: We've thought about using a KS in the past (as early as a year ago) but have not. It is something we're currently considering for Delver's Drop though. My thoughts on the topics at hand are no different than before that option was on the table, but I figured it might make some folks leery of my opinion despite having a goodly amount of experience as a backer and none as a project producer. Shrug
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 08:57:45 PM by randomshade » Logged

gggfhfdh
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2012, 08:13:13 PM »

i refuse to sponsor any project on kickstarter unless one of the developers has a Sick-Ass Skullet
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