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July 21, 2014, 11:19:22 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreativeWritingThe language of action
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Graham-
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 08:49:20 PM »

Yeah I understand. The point is still valid though.

Want to know what kind of levels you can create with a "jumping" mechanic? Make a jumping mechanic, then try out a level.

I'm working on a very subtle context-sensitive system too. That system demands prototyping even more than a non-subtle one. So your argument only furthers my point.

ps. Don't wait for the tech. Prototype on paper right away.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 08:58:29 PM by Graham. » Logged
Evan Balster
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 01:45:09 AM »

Yeah.

My concern was that I wouldn't be able to know how it'll work/feel until the tech was in place.  But if I do more conceptual prototyping work that'll help a lot.
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2012, 01:48:25 AM »

Well I can understand that too. I like code a lot. Programming is my background.

Just sketch like 5 things your chars can do. Implement 3. Then create like a handful of "story pieces" that arrange those 3 in interesting ways.

Then return to the general question.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2012, 03:10:01 PM »

Somewhat relevant:
http://computationalcreativity.net/iccc2012/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/103-PerezyPerez.pdf
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 01:43:22 AM »

Graham:  Following your advice I've implemented the "simplest" facet of the body language I want to create -- the eyes -- though they ended up being a bit deeper than expected.  (Which is good!)  I referred to some helpful materials on anatomy and animation, which have kept me aware that what I'm doing is for all its cleverness still a very crude illusion.  But it's already enough to express quite a lot, with the help of some context.

Check it out:

https://vimeo.com/56082473

EDIT: scroll down for a GIF.


I might start a devlog at this point.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 07:53:36 PM by Evan Balster » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 02:01:43 AM »

Try reading some of Robert E. Howard's books/short stories (especially Conan). I love how the fast-paced, actiony writing of it. Unlike most writers, he skips trivial details and focuses on the important stuff, which gives his writing a very fast paced look.

I think the problem with a lot of writing is that it tries to cover everything. It shouldn't; nobody cares about a lot of descriptions. It's often info dumping, though you can include detailed descs to simulate a slower moving 'camera'. It's perfectly possible to describe motions in writing.
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 02:09:54 AM »

This would be very useful advice if I were using text as my predominant means of conveyance.

In other news I found out how to make those silly GIFs.

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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 07:25:27 AM »


That's pretty good.

This is what I would do:
  . collect some resources: animation, movies, photographs
  . write a short dialog between 2 chars

  . for each sentence, phrase, or piece of a phrase, write down a
  description of the "emotion" the eyes show at that point - ideally
  the most important emotion - just choose 1 simple one to start
  . for each "emotion" collect the resources that most closely
  approximate what you have in mind
  . script your eyes for each emotion
  . play out the scene. dialog appears on the screen and the eyes
  behave in time with it.

Next step would to generate some bodily movements, ideally that suit
the mechanics you're thinking of, paste eyes on them, then have them
react to the player.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 10:14:58 AM »

This might be interesting as an inspiration:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012460

I Would advise you to go 3D because it will be easier to the long terms as movement would be clumsily constrain if 2D:
http://cmpmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/vault/gdc09/slides/Fortier_Universal%20Saints%20Row%202.ppt


This one is only tangentially related, I just put it there:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014362/Cinematic-Character-Lighting-in-STAR
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 12:07:42 PM »

Graham:  Mos def.  Since I'm interested in getting these to a point where they're semi-autonomously expressive I plan on messing with algorithms for blink rate, dilation, focal point, and squint level being controlled by more abstract variables or state representing emotion.


Gimmy:

The characters are going to be in a sort of 3D perspective rendered to 2D.  It's a weird imitation-animation system I'm trying to homebrew and not necessarily a good idea but I'm trying it.  The thinking was things like eyes would be slapped on like decals in this system, which I've learned isn't ideal...

Thanks for the references.
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 12:28:14 PM »

One tip. Nail a few big emotions you know play well before tackling the general formula. Easy to misstep there.

"Decals." I don't know what you mean but it doesn't sound ideal.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 04:02:04 PM »

Do what you want, It's your project, experiment Smiley

I have loosely plan something like you but I need to take care about some step before reaching that point, I'm not as good with programming.

I just want to point that despite those reference use realistic character rendition, they might work with simpler (even 2D) representation in spirit, especially "wind wakerish".

Eyes in wind waker are a sort of decals too, not sure.

Edit:
also

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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2012, 04:28:25 PM »

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/9792/do-eye-movements-reveal-how-a-person-is-thinking
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« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 04:48:16 PM »

It's crap but it useful for communicating intent in a fictional setting, aka it is a representation Wink
It's the same for facial feature, it's crap, but work well in character representation.
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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2012, 07:52:56 PM »

At the very least conveying introspection through non-focused eye movement is a very good idea.  My characters (or at least the protagonist) will frequently be stopping to think.

Fernando Ramallo reminded me of "body noise" today, as a response to my eye video.  Small, pseudorandom movements as the body adjusts and rebalances itself.  Like the motions of one's hand held at arm's length, or the twitch of an eyelid after a quick movement.  That's something worth considering as well, though I'm contemplating perhaps a more animated look.
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