Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1059471 Posts in 43082 Topics- by 35037 Members - Latest Member: AlishaKramer

October 31, 2014, 10:49:26 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessFollowers, subscribers, where and how?
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Author Topic: Followers, subscribers, where and how?  (Read 1406 times)
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« on: November 23, 2012, 08:57:21 AM »

I have come to realize that having players' contacts you can notify about your new game is more important than a press release or being featured in some website.

In the past we had mailing lists, but I don't think mailing lists are relevant nowadays.

How do you gain and maintain contacts nowadays?

There is twitter, facebook, RSS feeds, what else?
Logged

Master of all trades.
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 10:12:36 AM »

i think it's extremely foolish to think mailing lists are no longer relevant these days. i'm still on dozens of companies mailing lists -- e.g. amazon.com, newegg, steam, gog, tons more -- and that's the primary way i learn about their sales / special events / new products. it's also one of the main ways i learn about new games by the indies i've bought games from in the past. if you are a commercial indie game developer and do not have a mailing list, you are going to fail
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 10:20:14 AM »

I don't recall signing to anyone's mailing list in the past few years unless it was some big company I purchased their product and they add a "Want to be updated with news about discounts?" kind of thing.
And I usually don't accept it either.

Maybe mailing lists are good if you are a big company, I am not so sure about small indies. Big indie developers might benefit from it.

Do you have a mailing list? How many subscribers you have?

My big issue with maintaining a mailing list is that it is the least safe method to keep in contact with your followers.
I mean, if your mailing list service get hacked, all your followers are going to get their emails sold for spammers.
Logged

Master of all trades.
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 10:37:59 AM »

the fact remains that virtually all commercial indies who sell games for pc use newsletters. whether you personally sign up for them or not is completely irrelevant

and yes i have a newsletter; it has about 5000 subscribers

it's unlikely to be hacked because ymlp (the company i use) has not gotten hacked since i've been using them (for about 7 years)

also, fear of hacking is a stupid reason to not do something. i mean, your paypal could get hacked. so could your steam account. so could using a credit card online. so could your email. but just because they could get hacked, does that mean you should not use those things at all? have a little sense
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 10:43:06 AM »

Well, the fear of hacking is due to there is more in stakes here than just your credit card number and etc. You are not only risking yourself, you also risk other people who trusted you.
I had a newsletter list, but the service I was using got hacked(for someone's else list).
So it got me scared I guess.
I will check out ymlp. Are they like the leading service for newsletters?
Logged

Master of all trades.
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 10:44:54 AM »

as far as i know, they're the leading service indies use. almost every indie i know uses them.
Logged

Ant
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 10:46:48 AM »

I wish more indie devs would have separate twitter accounts for real gam news and personal everyday stuff, so I could follow their games without being inundated with tweets about what they're eating today. Twitter, forums and news websites are pretty much my only source for news since I can't be arsed with RSS feeds and mailing lists.
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 10:49:02 AM »

but, you realize that's exactly what newsletters are for right? for only the big important announcements. for the little daily things, that's what twitter is for. basically you're saying you follow people on the place they use for every little small update, and not the place they use for just the big updates, and wish they would use the place they use for small updates for big updates instead. that's a pretty unreasonable request
Logged

Ant
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 10:54:56 AM »

Well I think it's a grey area since I'd like get less important news too, such as inDev stuff about a new game which probably isn't suitable for newsletters. Several indie peeps have started creating twitter accounts separate from their personal accounts so it seems to be a trend, a trend which I hope continues because I prefer it.
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 11:04:12 AM »

ya, one solution is to make a twitter or facebook account for a particular game rather than for the individual developer, and that should be done as well. but a lot of people do not use facebook and twitter. for instance, i check email every day, i check facebook once a week, and check twitter maybe once a month. so developers are much more likely to reach me via email.
Logged

Muz
Level 10
*****



View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 11:08:43 AM »

I actually managed to create a fairly high hits site back in ye olde days with web rings and Top 100 type of sites (and no games, lol).

Web rings may be out of fashion, but communities aren't. Like I always say, look for a community of people who share like the type of games that you're going to make. Mingle with them, hang out with them in your spare time.

Then when you have a game, tell them about it. If it's "their kind" of game, they'll embrace it, and spread it virally to all the other people with the same taste. If it doesn't meet their standards, they'll do a good post mortem of it.

If the community doesn't exist, build one.

I ever make a Kickstarter, one of the first things I'd make is a private forum for people who donated over $3 and such. They'd be compelled to go there because they paid for it, something like the SA forums effect. Then you can just talk to them, give them news, share other similar games in those private forums, etc.

A lot of people seem to think that they can make it big with just an active twitter account and facebook. It doesn't work that way, especially with the new Facebook visibility tweaks. It's just another flyer in your mail, and people will most often just ignore it even if you reach a lot of people with minimal effort. (also note that facebook needs a lot of maintenance to get rid of the trolls)

Have something like a sincere blog. A good blog article that people link to is worth way more than a few thousand facebook likes. I think guys like Jeff Vogel and Paul Eres get it right. They manage to get enough goodwill to make people have a positive bias towards their games, and they speak in an animated manner that people would want to see their games.

Things like RSS and newsletters work, because they're a good way for someone to put a game on a watchlist and forget about it until it's complete. This is perfect because you actually want to tell the people waiting for your game when it's done.
Logged
moi
Level 10
*****


DILF SANTA


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 11:20:35 AM »

paul, how often do you issue a newsletter and what do you put in it?
Logged

subsystems   subsystems   subsystems
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 11:22:50 AM »

mainly whenever a new game is released, or a new patch, or some other major thing. i'd say maybe one email a year on average.
Logged

PDS271
Level 0
**

Dad. Gamer. Professional.


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2012, 04:01:43 PM »

I believe as a minimum today you need a Twitter, Facebook, blog. But there is so much more than that. For instance, if your target audience for an upcoming game is males 13-17 you'd also want to be on Instagram. Instagram is huge right now in the high school scene and it has powerful networking features just like twitter - hashtags.

If you're audience on the other hand is females 18-25 then you'd absolutely want to be on Pinterest. Having a board on Pinterest to showcase special features of your game, or maybe show off easter eggs and hidden gems would be very powerful.

There are many more networks and apps that could be of use to different audiences. But I also think that not having a newsletter because you don't use one is a big mistake. Whether you're a big company or not the fact is people who opt in to your mailing list are warm leads. They are already sold on your idea. You essentially own that audience.
Logged

Archibald
Level 4
****


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 05:27:43 PM »

To sum it up:
- Twitter (not personal, separate account for games news)
- Facebook (page or group because there are several options how you can set it up?)
- RSS
- Newsletter
(something else I overlooked?)

I'm kind of sceptical about your own forum/blog, because it's for the most die hard fans who will actively watch for months waiting when you post that the game is ready. The passive means (RSS, email) seems much better at the first glance...

Logged

Europe1300 - Realistic Historical Medieval Sim
PDS271
Level 0
**

Dad. Gamer. Professional.


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 07:44:07 PM »

Blogs are important because it is an archive of original content. Content is the #1 most important thing to market yourself online today. The other reason it is important to blog is because you can integrate it with your website and when people search for keywords the search engines will show your site if you create a lot of good, original content.

There are a lot of articles on how to be effective on blogging. One of the more recent overviews is here:

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/technology/101-steps-to-becoming-a-better-blogger.html

I also just posted a new article on an overview of social media for game developers:

http://pds271.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/facebook-twitter-game-dev-win/
Logged

Archibald
Level 4
****


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 01:52:26 AM »

I also just posted a new article on an overview of social media for game developers:

http://pds271.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/facebook-twitter-game-dev-win/
"you should average 1 tweet an hour" that's where I always stop reading. No matter how effective marketing tool this is I simply can not tweet/blog/facebook at anything even similar to that pace if I want to have any game finished. My energy has to go to making the game, not writing about it... I could imagine tweeting like once per 2 weeks, or once per week if the release is near and there is a lot to be announced, but on a normal day, unplug the internet and go make the actual game without any distractions. I can't imagine finishing it other way in any reasonable amount of time.

Spending effort on marketing is one thing, but making marketing your primary task is another and can't work for a lone indie.



BTW, what do you think about IndieDB? I mean it looks nice for a developer at a first glance (you out downloads, screens, can get feedback from people...) Isn't that one better, than a blog? Anyone uses it? What you think?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 02:07:43 AM by Archibald » Logged

Europe1300 - Realistic Historical Medieval Sim
PDS271
Level 0
**

Dad. Gamer. Professional.


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 08:17:24 AM »

I can understand where not having enough time is an issue, though being active in the online community you are hoping will buy your game is essential. By tweeting once an hour I mean total tweets for the day. There many programs which allow you to schedule posts throughout the day at certain time intervals - one of them is Hoot Suite: http://hootsuite.com/.

You can schedule the most important posts of the day, like a great article you've read, or an original post on your blog. The remaining tweets can be follows ups to people talking to you or retweets of posts you find interesting.

Speaking of blogs, I checked out indieDB and while I think it is good that they offer a spot for members to blog, the downside is that you have no brand presence on their site. Setting up a personal blog through Wordpress is quick and easy, has built in Search Engine Optimization - so potential customers can find your content easily, and has tons of free themes to customize the look of the site to match your brand.

I can tell how passionate you are about completing your games, but my advice would be to cut out a small block each day where you can focus on your audience - even if it's just an hour. That is a good start and you'd be surprised at how much you can accomplish on the marketing side of things in just that hour.
Logged

Archibald
Level 4
****


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 05:21:16 AM »

So, IndieDB is good only to be listed on but you should not use their blog feature?

About blogs. Thins kinds of puzzles me. Aren't you blogging dev related stuff that is interesting to other devs only? If it's not interesting to players how it can help you make more people avare of your game? Or maybe other indie devs buy your games?

my advice would be to cut out a small block each day where you can focus on your audience - even if it's just an hour.
Just "an hour"?! Smiley Whoa, how long you work each day? I work 4-6 hours a day, so a whole hour is around 25% of my time budget. But maybe it's that I'm too lazy and should work more... Smiley
Logged

Europe1300 - Realistic Historical Medieval Sim
PDS271
Level 0
**

Dad. Gamer. Professional.


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 06:02:06 AM »

Hey Archibald,

Your orignal question about not having enough time inspired me to write a short piece on some tools that can help you manage your marketing time. As far as how much I work - probably too much  Tired

So, IndieDB is good only to be listed on but you should not use their blog feature?

About blogs. Thins kinds of puzzles me. Aren't you blogging dev related stuff that is interesting to other devs only? If it's not interesting to players how it can help you make more people avare of your game? Or maybe other indie devs buy your games?

IndieDB is definitely good to be on. The more links to your site or blog out there the more people will be able to find it.

The content that you create on your blog should be focused on your audience - That is probably the hardest part of marketing any product; knowing who your target audience is. As an example, if your game is for toddlers to teach them basic shapes, letters and numbers then you might want to create content that parents will find interesting since the toddler won't be the one purchasing the game. This may be short reviews of other children's apps, or lists of money budgeting apps, or advice on how to introduce gaming and technology to children (if you have experience in that area), just to name a few ideas. All the while you could also post periodic updates of info on your upcoming game. What this does is build trust with the exact audience who will be making the decision to purchase your game. It will also begin to set you apart as an expert in your particular niche.

I know it sounds like a lot of work, but if you are determined to make your game successful and get it in front of the people who will want it then it will pay off  Smiley
Logged

Pages: [1] 2
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic