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1074140 Posts in 44039 Topics- by 36040 Members - Latest Member: Windwalker

December 22, 2014, 04:45:16 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsChasm [2d action-rpg platformer]
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Sar
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« Reply #360 on: April 30, 2013, 02:13:32 PM »

I tried new demo and those rats killed me so many times.. Its really hard kill those monster without dying. Normal mode feels like a nightmare.. I think normal mode should be a easier for normal mode.

The easiest way to kill rats is to use Book of Blades from a distance - a single hit kills the small ones outright.

The next-easiest way is to stand still somewhere along their move path and crouch - when they get close, time a sword-swing to hit them, it's quite possible to hit them before they hurt you. If you have trouble with this, try using the knife instead - the attack damage comes out quicker after you hit the button.

For the larger ones you need at least two sword-swings, but since they halt their movement as soon as you hit them, you have time to retreat and then crouch and face them again before they start moving again, if you don't think your reactions are up to hitting them a second time after they start moving and before they hit you.

Realistically, the pause on the larger ones is plenty of time to move a bit closer and hit them again, but that's not so easy/straightforward, I guess.



After playing the original demo and now playing the revised one several times, the only times I get hit by rats these days are:
- when I'm being careless, and
- when there are lots of them swarming over a platform I have to drop down onto and there's no gap to drop into.
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« Reply #361 on: May 01, 2013, 06:12:30 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_M8Tq9EE-s

https://twitter.com/Cellusious/status/329564512837586944

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beetleking22
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« Reply #362 on: May 01, 2013, 07:08:29 AM »

I tried new demo and those rats killed me so many times.. Its really hard kill those monster without dying. Normal mode feels like a nightmare.. I think normal mode should be a easier for normal mode.

The easiest way to kill rats is to use Book of Blades from a distance - a single hit kills the small ones outright.

The next-easiest way is to stand still somewhere along their move path and crouch - when they get close, time a sword-swing to hit them, it's quite possible to hit them before they hurt you. If you have trouble with this, try using the knife instead - the attack damage comes out quicker after you hit the button.

For the larger ones you need at least two sword-swings, but since they halt their movement as soon as you hit them, you have time to retreat and then crouch and face them again before they start moving again, if you don't think your reactions are up to hitting them a second time after they start moving and before they hit you.

Realistically, the pause on the larger ones is plenty of time to move a bit closer and hit them again, but that's not so easy/straightforward, I guess.



After playing the original demo and now playing the revised one several times, the only times I get hit by rats these days are:
- when I'm being careless, and
- when there are lots of them swarming over a platform I have to drop down onto and there's no gap to drop into.

Yeah you are right.. The thing why I died so many times is because I didn't use any energy. I used to like Super metroid system when enemy drop health..you fill you health without using menu equip.
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« Reply #363 on: May 01, 2013, 07:10:02 AM »

This is closer to Castlevania, though, which uses the opposite. Enemies never gave you health. Instead, they sometimes drop hearts which let you use your items more. You have to play carefully in Chasm. Adjust your frame of mind.
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beetleking22
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« Reply #364 on: May 01, 2013, 07:41:12 AM »

This is closer to Castlevania, though, which uses the opposite. Enemies never gave you health. Instead, they sometimes drop hearts which let you use your items more. You have to play carefully in Chasm. Adjust your frame of mind.

Damn I didint even remember Sotn have same system as chasm.. It has been quite a long time when I played castlevania games... But the thing with Sotn is that you have more energy and those regular monster dont take much damaga from you.. So you dont need use much of heal.
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Konidias
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« Reply #365 on: May 01, 2013, 10:59:13 AM »

After watching the play through, I just hope there is more to do in the game... I know it is just a demo but it was boring after about 2 minutes of watching him walk into slightly different but similar rooms and killing the same stuff over and over.

There needs to be some vastly different areas and major landmark things pop up to really make the game interesting. After 10 rooms of rats and bats, there just needs to be something else, otherwise the game will get stale very fast.

Also the music loop is very short and starts to grind in my ears after a while... the whole game feels like it should be maybe 5 minutes worth of play and then it needs to move on to something else... because I can't see myself listening to that music for 5 hours while killing rats and bats in similar looking cave levels for 5 hours.
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« Reply #366 on: May 01, 2013, 08:47:07 PM »

Don't forget that this game still has another year of development to go Smiley
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Konidias
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« Reply #367 on: May 01, 2013, 10:55:30 PM »

Finally got around to playing the demo... I hate the bats... I really hate the bats.

Okay maybe not so much the bats, but the frustrating controls. I found myself jumping and slashing as the bat hovered mere inches away and I couldn't hit it... over and over this happened, and I realized it wasn't really my fault, but the weird jumping controls. I noticed the jumping the moment I started playing. There is no ease in to the arc... it's just jump and hit an invisible ceiling. There's also just not enough maneuvering control while in mid jump... leaving me flailing about in the air while a flying enemy is just right next to me going totally unharmed while I frustratingly attempt to hit it.

Overall the controls felt very stiff, and it definitely felt like I was fighting the controls more than the enemies. Every single hit I took felt cheap and felt like it wasn't my fault. I definitely can't see myself playing this if the controls remain how they are.
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« Reply #368 on: May 02, 2013, 02:34:14 AM »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!
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« Reply #369 on: May 02, 2013, 08:49:40 AM »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!

Thanks! We're trying our best :D Very close now!
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Konidias
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« Reply #370 on: May 02, 2013, 09:09:11 AM »

I think there is just an animation missing going from jumping to falling. Given the fact that this is still an early view on the project there is plenty of time to fix that (And it should be fixed really. I thought exaclty the same when I tested the GDC Demo).

I really hope this project gets funded. I baked some money, so you better make this happen!

I dunno... I don't think just adding in an animation is going to improve that. It's definitely stopping suddenly out of nowhere. It's a Y axis issue, not so much an animation problem. I only point this out because since this game is a platformer, these kind of controls just aren't really acceptable... especially with so many other platformers showing how to do it right.

I died one time in the demo and quit the game. That's how frustrating it was. Every single time I was hit, it was because I couldn't properly jump or attack. I ended up dying because I was trying to jump attack a bat in mid-air while jumping over pits, but I had little to no movement control while mid-air, so I just ended up getting hit and landing right in the spikes.

I mean if the majority of the game is based around jumping and attacking... that needs to be done right. It needs to feel fluid and smooth. I need to feel like I have some control. Also I don't really think it helps that the two major enemies in the game are the most loathed enemies in platformers. (creatures that are low to the ground and move randomly and creatures that fly around in a game that is hard to jump attack in)
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« Reply #371 on: May 03, 2013, 11:27:24 AM »

Player tips:

Book of Blades (or as I call him, Bob) is your second best friend. If you're still having problems with silkworms, basic rats (not dire one), or bats, then you're not using Bob enough.

Personally, I equip my main weapon to D, and Bob to S. Makes a far more natural-feeling spread for a three-finger layout.

Use your altars wisely. You can only make one sacrifice apiece, so if you need HP, drop a potion or food. You can also drop defense gear - which I would suggest doing at least once - if you think you're taking too much damage. It's probably because you are, and this game makes you level that wisely, too.

Use your jump button! You can actually jump out of the way of bats diving at you if you can't strike them in time, and with one or two rats around you can easily jump past them. This isn't The Dishwasher or Double Dragon, nothing forces you to kill everything before you move along. Sometimes skipping a few targets is far easier than taking 4 hits trying to land one yourself.


As for feedback on the demo itself, check your G-mail DiscordGames. Smiley
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Elrinth
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« Reply #372 on: May 03, 2013, 12:26:51 PM »

Played thru the prototype today. It's a cool prototype. The bat ai could be a bit less random.
I died once cuz I was sloppy with my healings, oh and also because I didn't visit town and buy armour (played without armour alltogether).

You are definatly going to have to increase the randomness of the environments, but I really like what you've got going.
Right now it feels like the rooms are premade, then it just randoms the order in which they come. Then you simply randomize the monsters inside (depending on dungeon depth level).
I would like even more randomness with only "important" rooms being premade, and the rest being totally random with some set rules that make them always traversable and so the graphics will be consistent.

It is VERY cool for a prototype, I approve and I will probably chip in money before the time ends @ kickstarter.

Oh and F1 enables you to see collision boxes, very useful for development team and for people who wanna know how enemies work.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 02:42:33 PM by Elrinth » Logged
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« Reply #373 on: May 03, 2013, 12:28:15 PM »

Right now it feels like the rooms are premade, then it just randoms the order in which they come. Then you simply randomize the monsters inside (depending on dungeon depth level).

That is exactly how it works, yes.
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Konidias
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« Reply #374 on: May 03, 2013, 02:15:04 PM »

Player tips:

Book of Blades (or as I call him, Bob) is your second best friend. If you're still having problems with silkworms, basic rats (not dire one), or bats, then you're not using Bob enough.

Personally, I equip my main weapon to D, and Bob to S. Makes a far more natural-feeling spread for a three-finger layout.

Use your altars wisely. You can only make one sacrifice apiece, so if you need HP, drop a potion or food. You can also drop defense gear - which I would suggest doing at least once - if you think you're taking too much damage. It's probably because you are, and this game makes you level that wisely, too.

Use your jump button! You can actually jump out of the way of bats diving at you if you can't strike them in time, and with one or two rats around you can easily jump past them. This isn't The Dishwasher or Double Dragon, nothing forces you to kill everything before you move along. Sometimes skipping a few targets is far easier than taking 4 hits trying to land one yourself.


As for feedback on the demo itself, check your G-mail DiscordGames. Smiley
BoB is nice and all but it's incredibly weak and hard to accurately hit anything since stuff can move so randomly. It's great for rats at a distance but not much else. I get frustrated after the 4th jump shot attempt at bats and then just try to get past the bats, but they still randomly make their way to me and I end up taking several hits before I can land just one hit myself. The range of the swords are just really short and the movement in general is just really stiff so it only increases the problem.

Overall it just feels like the enemies are annoying and the controls are frustrating... I would go the totally opposite direction with an action platformer and have the controls be silky smooth and responsive, with larger attack areas. I wouldn't mind the randomness of the enemies so much if I felt more in control of the character.
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« Reply #375 on: May 03, 2013, 09:28:54 PM »

Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.

They will hover back and forth above you randomly, yes, and then choose a random time to swoop down, but they will always swoop down, and you can always kill them with that. As well, you can BoB them while they're still hanging on the ceiling.
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Impmaster
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« Reply #376 on: May 03, 2013, 10:59:00 PM »

Overall, it seems like there are two groups, one of which believes that the combat are bad, while the others think it's fine. It's up to the chasm devs to decide who they want to appeal to.
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« Reply #377 on: May 04, 2013, 05:52:29 AM »

The combat needs to be fleshed out more, as it's only on the basics right now, but the basics are fine. The combat doesn't need to be changed just because some people have a hard time spacing, baiting, and punishing.
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« Reply #378 on: May 04, 2013, 02:26:36 PM »

We're 90% funded with one week to go! If you haven't backed yet, now is the time :D

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/discordgames/chasm

Also, we've got a Fan Art contest going on! The top 3 pieces will be featured in our Chasm Compendium as well as receive a sweet Chasm t-shirt. One lucky Grand Prize winner will receive everything from the $500 Tier! Please read rules and details here:

http://discordgames.com/?p=2835
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Konidias
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« Reply #379 on: May 04, 2013, 02:33:30 PM »

Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.
Bats are not random.

They will hover back and forth above you randomly, yes, and then choose a random time to swoop down, but they will always swoop down, and you can always kill them with that. As well, you can BoB them while they're still hanging on the ceiling.
So... they aren't random... but everything about them is random. Gotcha.

The fact that they will eventually swoop down does not change the fact that they do this totally at random, meaning you cannot predict when they will swoop. If someone makes a video where they are consistently hitting the bats on swoop every time, I will shut up. :p

The combat needs to be fleshed out more, as it's only on the basics right now, but the basics are fine. The combat doesn't need to be changed just because some people have a hard time spacing, baiting, and punishing.
I'm good at games... really good in my opinion. But this game is just frustrating. I don't understand the argument here... People are actually arguing to keep it as is? Why? What does that benefit?

Impmaster's question is a no brainer:

1. Keep things they way they are... have people who are frustrated just not buy/play your game

2. Change things to be easier to control and less frustrating... The end result being that those people complaining are happy and the people not complaining don't care, because there is no downside to making controls less difficult to use.

You might argue that it's a situation where people are complaining because the game is too difficult, but difficulty does not and should not be defined by poor controls.
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