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[arrogancy]

I pointed those out due to your polish statement, not due to original content. I would have picked others for that. Even still...

I've played some of those games on Creator's Club. Weapon of Choice, for example, which is linked up there and which you labeled as a 'clone,' apparently, has an innovative weapon system where each playable character has a different weapon that works entirely different with an alternate use for each - the guy pictured in the video has a flamethrower than can be used to boost himself as a rocket launcher as well. At the same time it adds things like slowing down time right before you're shot; a kind of NPC/backpack that latches on to surrounding scenery, rescuing NPCs that have their OWN abilities/weapons, etc. All done in the same three months that he had to make his game.The tennis game, I haven't played, but it's supposed to work more as a fighting game as opposed to a tennis one.

By the same merit that you're using, I could say that his game is a generic platformer with spawning platforms and a Bionic Commando rope.

I didn't really mean to pick on your thread or anything; I just guess it had weird timing. I had started a Dream Build Play thread that showed everyone how to find 200ish videos of brand new, never before seen independent games that people had been slaving over for months, and the only one that got attention was the "meme-ish" named one. And, not just here, but in many of the indie game communities, these games get ignored for the "pixel art platformer of the week" or the "two week concept" or whatever, and I guess it started to get to me a bit. Speaking broadly, as opposed to just here, there seem to be too many indie game in-crowds and cliques where people aren't playing games for the experience of finding cool new things or getting attention for the 'starving artists' in their basements - they just want to be part of an alternative crowd or "different" from the mainstream. There was just a post asking why someone didn't apply a time mechanic to a shooter, where a DBP entry (Zeit2) does that very thing.

Sorry about the rant; it's just been bubbling over for a while. I'm not complaining since my game got more than enough attention, but having worked on an entry, I felt kind of bad for all of the entries that are getting relatively ignored that I think have a lot of promise that probably won't win a prize. I don't know if it's a general anti-Microsoft thing, or because they aren't pixel based or what in some instances. This was more of a wide rant as opposed to being addressed specifically to you, or the Unicorn Game, which i think is cute in a weird, offbeat way.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Didn't Cave Story have that 'use a weapon to boost yourself up' thing too? I'm sure a lot of them have innovative parts, but MUA is the most innovative one I've sen just judging from the videos (and if a video doesn't give a good representation of a game, that's the video editor's fault rather than the game's fault). A game with "innovative weapons" with alternative uses for each doesn't sound exactly like a game I want to rush off and play. I'm kind of tired of innovative weapons to shoot enemies with and explode them in new ways, I personally want more games that are about things other than shooting enemies with weapons, even if those weapons are innovative.

I think you're pretty mistaken if you believe that most of the people here like this game in order to be a part of an alternative crowd or to feel different, that's kind of an offensive thing to say. Though I admit that one reason I probably like this game is that because a lot of people I know worked on it (SDHawk, Sew, Jazzman -- I know them all from the Ohrrpgce community). And I like unicorns -- don't underestimate the power of an interesting premise, it's more important than execution a lot of the time.

I also think this isn't similar to bionic commando at all: bionic commando has a static line as the arm, wheres this one is stretchy, like a bungee cord, more like the umihara games. It's much more like the umihara games than bionic commando in general, because those games also had a female lead and they were also fairly non-violent.

[deadeye]

I pointed those out due to your polish statement, not due to original content. I would have picked others for that. Even still...

I don't wanna seem nitpicky but it wasn't me who mentioned polish, it was GeneralValter.

By the same merit that you're using, I could say that his game is a generic platformer with spawning platforms and a Bionic Commando rope.

Nope, it's a generic platformer with spawning unicorns and a Bionic Commando rope, that's hilariously broken.  That was my point.  Not that I was really making a point, I was just having a conversation.

[undertech]

Perhaps it would help to make the presence of a unicorn more relevant? Right now you can replace the unicorn with a piece of helpful cheese and it wouldn't change a thing. On the other hand, if you dug a bit deeper and had the unicorn quiz you briefly to see if you (or the game character) were a virgin or not (and the results affecting gameplay) then you'd have something.

[arrogancy]

edit: Sorry, responses keep popping up - I was trying to avoid quoting, but this topic moves faster than it did before. This is in response to rinkuhero's last post.

I didn't say "most of the people here;' I specifically said "speaking broadly, and not just here."

So MUA is more innovative than these?

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=fdcf2a44-4855-4325-891f-95bf021dbdd0
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=8ed38ddf-8aae-48f5-88bc-12a852af5856
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=3f072910-d59a-49c4-aeaf-e0016b847671
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=d711cf1c-942f-45cc-a490-d1f33774984b

I'm pretty much the opposite of you. Being "random" or "silly" is the marketing, which we agree on, but I also think that's the easy part. It takes me one night of drinking to think of random/goofy humor. People praise the goofiness in my game and say "that looks fun" a lot more than they notice how the programmer got the guy to jump just right, etc. And I think that real fans of games such as us should notice and praise that over the more gimmicky aspects of games, which tons of people can do. The intricacies in programming, getting the gameplay just-right, finding out new ways to accomplish old tricks, that's what I'm interested in and that's what I tend to see right away. The shiny wraping goes away after playing once.

[deadeye]

I never said MUA was innovative.  It's not.  It's completely derivative of other games, I 100% agree with you. 

Except it's silly.  And bad.  That's what make it look like fun.  That's all.

And I really don't see why everyone keeps saying "but you could just replace the unicorn with _____ and it would be the same thing."  No, it wouldn't be.  The fact that it is a unicorn, rather than a gray block or a helpful cheese (which would do in a pinch I guess) is an important distinction.  It adds that certain WTF aspect that helps make the game fun.

As for An Awesome Game, yeah that looks like fun too, even though it's also rather derivative of other games.  It's the subject matter.  It's silly and wacky.  That does count for something, you know.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

"People praise the goofiness in my game and say "that looks fun" a lot more than they notice how the programmer got the guy to jump just right, etc."

That's true of every game. People praised the ability to go back in time in Braid more than they praised that the programming was just right. Superficial things that people can see on the surface matter more to most people than under-the-hood things, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

As for the videos you posted

- I can't understand what's happening in the first one, the character just seems to be wandering around touching lights and picking up glowing things. Looks kind of pointless, but that could be the video editor's fault.

- The second looks good, it's the only one I'd consider playing besides the MUA one so far.

- The third one is probably innovative for the mainstream but since I've seen a lot of GM games where you can manipulate the environment in a way similar to what's done there it doesn't look too new to me. It also seems like it's not a mechanic that can be taken very far, whereas the central mechanic in the time-warp shooter looks like it'd have a lot of interesting uses. In other words, it's hard to imagine the mechanic in this game being varied enough that you can sustain a significant number of distinct and interesting challenges / levels revolving around it.

- The fourth one has a similar problem: the mechanic itself is interesting, but I'm not sure it'd lead to interesting gameplay. The video didn't look "fun" -- it wasn't something that I wanted to try to do myself.

By contrast, creating a moving platform which you can swing off of (in MUA) does have a lot of applications and seems like it could potentially lead to interesting gameplay in a platformer. So I'd still say the two most innovative games I've seen in all the videos so far are the time-warp shooter and MUA.

[Garthy]

Better idea:

Magical Unicron Adventure

Magical Unicron Adventure, hey? Well, what can I say, that's a game I'd play. I imagine it'd work something like this...

[BlueSweatshirt]

Totally unexpected, but it looks quite... trippy... I don't understand why unicorns are appearing out of no where and are running around defying the laws of gravity and magically disappearing when touching a wall... But, the physics look solid, and I love the background. I'm anxious to play 

[arrogancy]

"People praise the goofiness in my game and say "that looks fun" a lot more than they notice how the programmer got the guy to jump just right, etc."

That's true of every game. People praised the ability to go back in time in Braid more than they praised that the programming was just right. Superficial things that people can see on the surface matter more to most people than under-the-hood things, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

As for the videos you posted

- I can't understand what's happening in the first one, the character just seems to be wandering around touching lights and picking up glowing things. Looks kind of pointless, but that could be the video editor's fault.

- The second looks good, it's the only one I'd consider playing besides the MUA one so far.

- The third one is probably innovative for the mainstream but since I've seen a lot of GM games where you can manipulate the environment in a way similar to what's done there it doesn't look too new to me. It also seems like it's not a mechanic that can be taken very far, whereas the central mechanic in the time-warp shooter looks like it'd have a lot of interesting uses. In other words, it's hard to imagine the mechanic in this game being varied enough that you can sustain a significant number of distinct and interesting challenges / levels revolving around it.

- The fourth one has a similar problem: the mechanic itself is interesting, but I'm not sure it'd lead to interesting gameplay. The video didn't look "fun" -- it wasn't something that I wanted to try to do myself.

By contrast, creating a moving platform which you can swing off of (in MUA) does have a lot of applications and seems like it could potentially lead to interesting gameplay in a platformer. So I'd still say the two most innovative games I've seen in all the videos so far are the time-warp shooter and MUA.

Ok, I'm kind of getting it now, given your reviews of those. Your preferences are more based on the baasic ideas within the game instead of the application in that game in particular. For instance, although the platform mechanic really doesn't go anywhere thusfar in MUA, you see where it COULD go and praise it based on that, more than its actual implimentation in game. Basically, you judge what the game could be in videos as opposed to "what is."

And there's nothing wrong with that at all - it's just seeing a game live up to its potential is so rare that I tend to be rather jaded that most games will ever progress pass the "good idea" stage. I won't call a game innovative until it actually progresses to a point where I see the mechanic is used in an interesting/fun way in-game; because so many games come up with gimmicks, only to use them in the dullest way possible.

ie: As an example, I hear of a game called MUA and think of an idea of a game that has a lot of comedy potential and see videos of a funnily animated unicorn and character and rope, but when I actually see it play, none of that is used in really creative or interesting ways regarding gameplay, so I assume that it won't be. You assume that it will, and that's fine; we're just looking at the same thing from two ends of the spectrum. On the flip side, I see a game with apparently tight controls, good collision, etc. and I assume that it at least plays well because that's what I've seen thusfar.

[Valter]

I'm lovin' your picture, Garthy
sorry for killing you


Also, arrogancy, The other games just look boring to me. The one game that would definitely rate higher than MUA is Zeit squared, but that's just because I'm a sucker for time travel.

Also, remember that MUA had at least 6 level available for it, and you only saw the first two in that video. There are probably progressively more interesting applications for your Unicorn in each level.

[muku]

Zeit² definitely looks very awesome, I'd love to play that.

I guess this makes me very un-indie, but I thought that fighting game (HurricaneX2 or something) actually looked a lot of fun and extremely well done, and I'd probably play Weapon of Choice for a while for the awesome enemy designs alone (if it was free).

[arrogancy]

^^^I've played Zeit2 (You could get on Creator's Club for free just for REGISTERING for DBP) and it can really go places. It's kind of limited now, but when he expands it, it has potential to be really good.

I'm lovin' your picture, Garthy
sorry for killing you


Also, arrogancy, The other games just look boring to me. The one game that would definitely rate higher than MUA is Zeit squared, but that's just because I'm a sucker for time travel.

Also, remember that MUA had at least 6 level available for it, and you only saw the first two in that video. There are probably progressively more interesting applications for your Unicorn in each level.

I've seen level 6 as well; I looked at the game a while ago. There's another video that shows more.

[Valter]

Look, I know you've got lots of valid points about why other games are better than MUA. The problem is that MUA has fucking unicorns, and none of the other games have fucking unicorns. Enough said.

[Cymon]

Look, I know you've got lots of valid points about why other games are better than MUA. The problem is that MUA has fucking unicorns, and none of the other games have fucking unicorns. Enough said.

No, the problem is MUA just slapped unicorns on a game like a post-it note and everyone goes all wibbly at the knees. Screw you all. Putting a meme in a game without respecting the meme, screw you.

Here, I got an idea. Change player to a ninja (works with the tether rope dynamic), change the unicorns to pirates that are thrown by the ninja, albeit very slowly, and now you'd have a meme fest that made sense.

[muku]

MUA has fucking unicorns

What! UniPorn? Cite your sources, sir!



(SCNR)

[Valter]

Look, I know you've got lots of valid points about why other games are better than MUA. The problem is that MUA has fucking unicorns, and none of the other games have fucking unicorns. Enough said.

No, the problem is MUA just slapped unicorns on a game like a post-it note and everyone goes all wibbly at the knees. Screw you all. Putting a meme in a game without respecting the meme, screw you.

Here, I got an idea. Change player to a ninja (works with the tether rope dynamic), change the unicorns to pirates that are thrown by the ninja, albeit very slowly, and now you'd have a meme fest that made sense.

I'm not sure this game was trying to make sense.

Also, this has been nagging me for a while. Is this the same group of people that made the unfair platformer? It's a flash game that seems to have similar graphics to that.

[Problem Machine]

I thought I liked this game, until guesst told me my reasons for liking it were wrong. Apparently, I'm a slave to internet memes, and if I weren't I'd see this game for the hollow corpse of a sham it is. Odd, I hadn't even realized that unicorns were a meme. Anyway, I must thank you deeply guesst; I almost made the grave mistake of enjoying something that wasn't good enough. Thank god that's over, now I can rest easily in my soulless and empty depression, satisfied that nothing will ever be worthy enough of my attention to rouse me. It will be most relaxing.

[Valter]

I think next we'll free you from your slavery to sarcasm.

[Tanner]

I thought I liked this game, until guesst told me my reasons for liking it were wrong. Apparently, I'm a slave to internet memes, and if I weren't I'd see this game for the hollow corpse of a sham it is. Odd, I hadn't even realized that unicorns were a meme. Anyway, I must thank you deeply guesst; I almost made the grave mistake of enjoying something that wasn't good enough. Thank god that's over, now I can rest easily in my soulless and empty depression, satisfied that nothing will ever be worthy enough of my attention to rouse me. It will be most relaxing.

Congrats, you are now a third fifth of the way to greatness.