Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411476 Posts in 69369 Topics- by 58424 Members - Latest Member: FlyingFreeStudios

April 23, 2024, 05:17:31 PM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignGame-making philosophy, self-doubt, questions...
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Author Topic: Game-making philosophy, self-doubt, questions...  (Read 3475 times)
Udderdude
Level 10
*****


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2012, 09:39:51 AM »

For example, professional basketball players often practice very small skills with great deliberation (like shoulder-tucking while shooting), whereas amateur players just play games without much self-awareness, so they never (or only haphazardly) improve their vital skills and behaviors.

I think this is related to game development, in that developers who always try to "wing it" with no real plan usually don't get too far.  Someone with a plan, and who has practiced that plan and put it into motion before with previous games has a much higher chance of succeeding.
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2012, 11:08:42 AM »

i'd also like to second the recommendation that you work with others on their game first. you learn a *lot* by working with experienced game developers on their projects. almost all successful indies didn't just start on their own and make their first game on their own, they worked on other people's projects firsts and learned the ropes. that will remove some of the "fear" since you are only responsible for helping someone else and for learning how games are made, you aren't responsible for the success or failure of the project that way.
Logged

Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 09:42:01 AM »

Actually, Graham., . Maybe not everyone uses the exact same ones, but they certainly exist in a wide variety of endeavors. For example, professional basketball players often practice very small skills with great deliberation (like shoulder-tucking while shooting), whereas amateur players just play games without much self-awareness, so they never (or only haphazardly) improve their vital skills and behaviors.

Working every day is certainly a helpful skill, but it's not very specific -- what do you do every day? How do you start? Do you first review your to-do list, then disable your Internet connection? Or perhaps something else? (I'm asking these questions rhetorically -- you might do things in an entirely different fashion.)

*I'm not saying they're easy to do. However, spending time breaking them down into very small, concrete actions helps.

Bro, you're missing the point. There are a million things I do. I wake up and do it. I have a lot of practice, and time spent reading, and interacting with people more skilled than me, and going to school, and thinking, and writing, and on and on.

Obviously there are techniques, but it is not the techniques that make you good. You will have to go through like 47 billion trials to succeed.

I just work. I follow my instincts, sometimes screw up, and keep going. Sometimes I review todo lists, or refactor, or read, or write down every thought I have. I'll organize old notes, or prioritize a todo, spend 3 hours on 6 different things.... you get the idea.

You: "I believe there are specific behaviors that are small and able to be replicated* that separate those who don't get stuff done from those who do get stuff done"

What separates those who get stuff done and don't get stuff done is huge. It is not small. This is my point. Everything else you say is fine.
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2012, 10:37:47 AM »

i should also note that a lot of people giving advice in this thread have never finished a game (seems like the blind leading the blind), so make sure you look into someone's history of finishing games before you take their advice about how to finish games
Logged

Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2012, 10:38:15 AM »

ooo. burn.
Logged
Udderdude
Level 10
*****


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2012, 10:57:16 AM »

How to maek gaem

Step 1. Maek
Step 2. Gaem

GOGOGO
Logged
Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2012, 11:31:25 AM »

*thumbs*
Logged
GangnamStyle
Level 0
*


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

People who finish their games are simply people who cannot left them unfinished. They simply can't do anything else! It's exactly that thing they want to do the most at that point in time which is why they end up doing it without having to push themselves.

But then you get BAD game developers, BAD workers, people with "work ethics" and whatnot, and then they get to tell other people how to make games lol. "Listen to me, I made games and I cried many times during that time therefore crying is a must!".

And no, I haven't made any games but I have finished other things in my life so I'm talking through analogies here and that is just as fine.
Logged
Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2012, 11:50:40 AM »

No crying, just solid experience.

---

I think the major issue is this idea that you have to be good enough to succeed, or know something special. You don't. The successful don't have some secret. They just applied themselves towards reaching their goal. How did they do that? How can you tell if you're doing it? I don't know.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 12:01:42 PM by Graham. » Logged
clockwrk_routine
Guest
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2012, 12:54:02 PM »

i think if you apply yourself enough to an activity you build taste, you build an internal critic that instinctively knows that there are areas where you suck so you practice in them, and then you apply what you've learned.

i don't like this idea that qualified advice can only come from those successful in your field your interested in.  this isn't necessarily about finishing games it's about the motivation needed to finish anything you're interested in.  all the advice here is pretty valid.  apply yourself enough in anything you'll get there.  everyone's learning.  to be honest I don't think there are any 'master' game designers, it seems very much like touch and feel, maybe these are refined in their one's own way and aptitude, game designers are so spread and focused on different aspects, there's more than one way to skin a cat and you'll discover that and that's your voice.

It's good to respect more seasoned developers, but also listening and respecting those in the throes of learning and disciplining themselves is just as important.  works in progress works in progress
Logged
Gregg Williams
Level 10
*****


Retromite code daemon


View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2012, 01:20:19 PM »

Actually, Graham., I believe there are specific behaviors that are small and able to be replicated* that separate those who don't get stuff done from those who do get stuff done. Maybe not everyone uses the exact same ones, but they certainly exist in a wide variety of endeavors. For example, professional basketball players often practice very small skills with great deliberation (like shoulder-tucking while shooting), whereas amateur players just play games without much self-awareness, so they never (or only haphazardly) improve their vital skills and behaviors.

Working every day is certainly a helpful skill, but it's not very specific -- what do you do every day? How do you start? Do you first review your to-do list, then disable your Internet connection? Or perhaps something else? (I'm asking these questions rhetorically -- you might do things in an entirely different fashion.)

*I'm not saying they're easy to do. However, spending time breaking them down into very small, concrete actions helps.

Usually most projects go like this for me.

1. Initial concept, the idea, basic gameplay.
2. Create prototype to test initial concept and gameplay design ideas.
3. Refactor and adjust design ideas, until mechanics are found fun and correct.
4. Depending on the size of the project, make more prototypes to test particular gameplay mechanics/ideas addiions, throw away prototype and start coding the game correctly, or just go forward with the often less than ideal prototype code base. (Works okay for smallish games.)
5. At this point your core game mechanics are ideally implemented, and locked down. Your game design direction, aesthetic, etc is clear. Now you inflate the design to account for content, variety, menu systems, and so forth.
6. Break the new enlarged design down into chunks which can be implemented, tested, and tweaked. Todo lists often help here I find.
7. Repeat until chunks are done. Chunks may get added, removed, or changed during this process, though ideally not to much.
8. Enter the final stages of content tweaking, polishing, and QA.
9. Repeat 8 about 5-10 more times, until you've just had enough and say the game is good enough. (You could polish a game forever, eventually you just have to decide its done.)
10. Final pass of QA/User testing, minor adjustments.
11. Ship.

Most all of this is just about working though. The main trick really is just to know where your end destination is more or less, and what you need to accomplish to reach it. This is where lots of pre-production/prototyping work comes into play. Really there is a whole field devoted to project management, and production as this can become quite elaborate when dealing with deadlines, budges, teams, and so forth.

Of course thats also just for developing, if your aiming for commercial success, you probably should have marketing, fan base/community building, PR, and so forth though the entire or a good chunk of development process as well, and after it.

A lot of times games become difficult to work on once you hit step 7 or so. A lot of it can change from creative work, to just a lot of labor. How you continue to motivate yourself to do the labor, and eventually finish, is just often very dependent upon the individual.

Logged

Trystin
Level 4
****


Nyoom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2012, 01:45:28 PM »

I concur with Paul Eres, Fear of the game being loved or played is one of the main reasons why people don't make games. Don't worry about what other people think, just be yourself with your games.
Logged

Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2012, 02:36:37 PM »

I suppose my system:
 
1. Have good idea?
   -> Do it.
2. Don't have good idea?
  -> Pick best idea.
  -> Build it
  -> repeat until can go back to one.

So if I feel inspired then I'll just do whatever. If I don't then I try to produce something measurable. With games this is normally a prototype. For example you would take the best thing you've got so far and put it into a prototype asap, or something else that has obvious results - prototypes are easy to play and say "yep, that's good/bad."
Logged
Muz
Level 10
*****


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2012, 11:44:54 PM »

Or like I said earlier in the thread...

Don't have good idea
-> Work with someone who has one
Logged
Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2012, 06:16:37 AM »

yeah, teams rock.
Logged
tequibo
Level 1
*


smoke and mirrors


View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2012, 10:49:27 AM »

Make something small and simple. Learn to work on games.
"Do what you love" is kind of sounds silly when used out of context. You can love music, but if you can't play any instrument you probably won't "love" learning right away. Learning is kind of hard, most of the time. Learning is a skill. Working on a project is a skill. It is hard, but there is joy too. When you learned something, and you getting good at it. When you are good at it but there is still something to learn.

And most of the times you do need to push yourself a bit. Sometimes "comfort zone" means stagnation.


And here is some wise words from Ze Frank

« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 10:56:02 AM by tequibo » Logged

stef1a
Guest
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2012, 07:47:12 AM »

Hm. I've never found teams to be very helpful, because the other person almost always loses interest / motivation. Obviously I'm not teaming up with the right people.
Logged
Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2012, 07:58:47 AM »

Obv.

Look for people who have a track record i.e. you can see their work. Then you know that no matter how useless you might be they will get things done. (joking)
Logged
Kap_g
Guest
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2012, 08:55:07 AM »

I think creativity comes in 2 disciplines.
Practice and real inspiration.
Try practicing at your art when you don't have inspiration, techniques, art, music, sound design. And then when the inspiration strikes, you will have more tools available then when you don't practice outside of your creative outbursts. And when you dó get stuck on a piece of code or whatever Google is your best friend for quick searches.
This applies to all creative arts.

And when you dó create something out of pure inspiration backed up by your practicing.
You will never have to be ashamed or fearful of what you made if you stand behind your creation.

- Kap

Oh and, don't make compromises in the process. You will never be satisfied with half work.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic