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[Hipshot]

I agree with the monster variation, but later in the game, there will be a lot more variation and functions to the enemies.

You can't really afford to wait until later in the game to show off all the variations and gameplay.
The lack of variation kills a lot of the gameplay early on, since it gets too repetitive.

I'm painfully aware of this, because I feel it myself when I play, hitting level 3.

As I see it, the only way to redeem this is either to reduce the first act1, so you complete it faster or introduce another enemy into it to make it less repetitive.

[pluckyporcupine]

As I see it, the only way to redeem this is either to reduce the first act1, so you complete it faster or introduce another enemy into it to make it less repetitive.

I'd appreciate both, actually.

To be really blunt about it, 2 hours with no saving and the amount of repetition the game has currently was honestly a bit much. My girlfriend and I unanimously agreed that if the rest of the game has the same lack of variation that we're not that interested in playing the rest of the game.

I hate to say that since we don't get anything even close to the Gauntlet formula very often and the art is really nice but it is just way too repetitive for way too long right now.

EDIT: Have to ask since I wrote a lot and didn't get a reply - did you see my feedback in the other thread?

[Hipshot]

As I see it, the only way to redeem this is either to reduce the first act1, so you complete it faster or introduce another enemy into it to make it less repetitive.

I'd appreciate both, actually.

To be really blunt about it, 2 hours with no saving and the amount of repetition the game has currently was honestly a bit much. My girlfriend and I unanimously agreed that if the rest of the game has the same lack of variation that we're not that interested in playing the rest of the game.

I hate to say that since we don't get anything even close to the Gauntlet formula very often and the art is really nice but it is just way too repetitive for way too long right now.

EDIT: Have to ask since I wrote a lot and didn't get a reply - did you see my feedback in the other thread?

Yes, I read it. It just to much feedback from everywhere to reply to it all at the moment. And also the two threads... I'm not sure yet how to divide the attention =)

The saving issue will ofc be fixed, the game is supposed to save at the checkpoints.

The game is also faster now, increased walk speed and the combo system, that increases player speed for a while when killing a lot of enemies in a short time. We also added a "resting speed" that makes backtracking faster. That should make the first act a little shorter at least from a walk speed point of view.

[tchassin]

I don't know if how hard it would be to implement, but if the dash attack pushed back enemies, the player would not be trapped when one of them survives the attack. Also a slight push back would help keeping the paladin alive.
Also the bombs in the crates seem very unfair: I had not problem with them with the wizard or the ranger, but I got hurt by the blast a couple times as paladin.
Keep up the good work, the amount of feedback is proportional to your game's potential!

[Hipshot]

I don't know if how hard it would be to implement, but if the dash attack pushed back enemies, the player would not be trapped when one of them survives the attack. Also a slight push back would help keeping the paladin alive.
Also the bombs in the crates seem very unfair: I had not problem with them with the wizard or the ranger, but I got hurt by the blast a couple times as paladin.
Keep up the good work, the amount of feedback is proportional to your game's potential!

It was like that, a long time ago, it looked so bad, because there was no limit to how far they skied. As an example, sometimes now, you can see that they push each other around, look at when a bat goes behind a maggot and kinda pushes him forwards, then more maggots comes around and it just slapstick... =)

These issues are pretty low prio at the moment though.

[TehSeph]

The beta is crashing when hosting a multiplayer game and someone new joins after the game has already started. I would have emailed the error like instructed, but sadly my email is inaccessible at the moment.

----- UNHANDLED EXCEPTION -----
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection.
Parameter name: index
   at System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeException()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.ClientDisconnected(Int32 peerId)
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.OnDisconnect(Int32 peerId)
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.Network.Update()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.Update(Int32 ms)
   at ARPGGame.ARPGGame.OnUpdateFrame(FrameEventArgs e)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.RaiseUpdateFrame(Stopwatch update_watch, Double& next_update, FrameEventArgs update_args)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.Run(Double updates_per_second, Double frames_per_second)
   at ARPGGame.Program.Main(String[] args)
-----

Otherwise, I'm very much enjoying this game and cannot wait for the finished product! I created an account on these forums just to show my support and I've +1'd you on GL! I'll be watching Steam and hammerwatch.com anxiously for the release!


EDIT: Same issue, new error. Figured I'd post it.

----- UNHANDLED EXCEPTION -----
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.NetworkMessage.SendToAllExcept(NetPeer peer, NetIncomingMessage inc, Int32[] exclude)
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.Network.Update()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.Update(Int32 ms)
   at ARPGGame.ARPGGame.OnUpdateFrame(FrameEventArgs e)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.RaiseUpdateFrame(Stopwatch update_watch, Double& next_update, FrameEventArgs update_args)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.Run(Double updates_per_second, Double frames_per_second)
   at ARPGGame.Program.Main(String[] args)
-----

[Hipshot]

The beta is crashing when hosting a multiplayer game and someone new joins after the game has already started. I would have emailed the error like instructed, but sadly my email is inaccessible at the moment.

----- UNHANDLED EXCEPTION -----
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection.
Parameter name: index
   at System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeException()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.ClientDisconnected(Int32 peerId)
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.OnDisconnect(Int32 peerId)
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.Network.Update()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.Update(Int32 ms)
   at ARPGGame.ARPGGame.OnUpdateFrame(FrameEventArgs e)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.RaiseUpdateFrame(Stopwatch update_watch, Double& next_update, FrameEventArgs update_args)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.Run(Double updates_per_second, Double frames_per_second)
   at ARPGGame.Program.Main(String[] args)
-----

Otherwise, I'm very much enjoying this game and cannot wait for the finished product! I created an account on these forums just to show my support and I've +1'd you on GL! I'll be watching Steam and hammerwatch.com anxiously for the release!


EDIT: Same issue, new error. Figured I'd post it.

----- UNHANDLED EXCEPTION -----
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.NetworkMessage.SendToAllExcept(NetPeer peer, NetIncomingMessage inc, Int32[] exclude)
   at TiltedEngine.Networking.Network.Update()
   at ARPGGame.GameBase.Update(Int32 ms)
   at ARPGGame.ARPGGame.OnUpdateFrame(FrameEventArgs e)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.RaiseUpdateFrame(Stopwatch update_watch, Double& next_update, FrameEventArgs update_args)
   at OpenTK.GameWindow.Run(Double updates_per_second, Double frames_per_second)
   at ARPGGame.Program.Main(String[] args)
-----

Thanks, you need to join the game while the host is in the lobby. There is sadly no information about this =) Myran will look at these errors and see if there's something else hidden in there...

[Hipshot]

I'm trying this minimap with the enemies showing, it's pretty neat, you really get a better view of the opposition. You can plan a bit better too when trying to play with more haste...

- The red small squares are moving enemies, could be whatever kind
- Red larger squares with a cross are towers and static enemies (not traps)
- Red larger squares with an outline are enemy spawners, they just keep spawning enemies, like the barracks in red alert

The top one is a fully opaque map, I can't play like this, it's very obtrusive.
If I use the map, I increase the transparency in the options menu so I just slightly see the walls, pickups, stores and such.

I'm also trying to fix up the icons and colors, right now, all stores are clearly marked with what kind with text/icon and they are dark blue, all items that can be picked up (that are in the map) are green, like health and keys, all enemies are red and objectives and interactions are orange-ish...

Myran is also looking into adding an explore feature to the map, like in a lot of other games, like starcraft, civ, uh... path of exile and so on,  but it's a bigger thing so it might not be or it's gonna take a while.

[Eldboll]

I love this.

[Buga]

This game looks awesome :D! Keep up with the good work.
I saw some people complaining about the lack of variety in the first act and I really think that one more enemy type would be nice but what do you think about adding some "Mini-bosses"?

They could be bigger versions of the "elite monsters" with a colored aura indicating their special power (e.g. green = faster, red = more hp, ...) and would have an additional attack with more bullets, bigger bullets or whatever.

[Orange_Lazarus]

I really enjoyed the Beta, I get the impression the level was designed (maybe a little too much) for people who want to try and time attack the game because when I played cautiously it was too easy but when I tried to rush past the packs the game suddenly became challenging and fun.  I think some of the "repetitive" feel of the game could be fixed if a few mini-bosses or other surprises appeared along the way. 

The only other critique I have is that I couldn't find much of a use for the Mage's fire-breath.  I think it could be given some utility if it left a temporary wall of flame that enemies would be forced to run around.  The Mage could use this to slow down enemies or to shield his allies. 

[FreshSheet]

I created a wiki for this game, come and contribute what you know.

[caribou]

That game is really awesome <3

As already said the only issue i had is the Wizard flame skill which seems a bit useless since it doesn't do a lot of damage, use mana and doesn't equal his fireball IMO since it does zone as well. Maybe the fireball aoe is too big.

I feel that overall the Wizard is a bit overpowered, he can't take a lot of damage, right, but still. Now i haven't finished the act and when bullet hell zone appears It starts to be harder to survive indeed.

Also, the paladin is hard if not impossible to play in survival.

[FreshSheet]

Just found this out, you might wanna fix it... If you host a LAN game and make 4 players of the same class, all with the same controls you become an unstoppable megaunit. Kinda breaks the game since not only do you do 4x the damage, but you pick every item up 4 times as well. One bronze key turns into 4, 50 coins turn into 200, etc. And if you die (only player 4 seems to take damage unless its a piercing shot) then you can just keep on where you were since you spawn exactly where your team is.

[caribou]

I finished the act with 2 of my friends and i enjoyed it again, i have to say that the op feeling i had with the wizard kinda balanced itself when I reached the weapon npc. Also while the paladin isn't really fun at the beginning, when you make the dmg update, increase the arc and understand a bit more the gameplay it's actually really really fun !

I just regretted a bit to have played with infinite lives when i reached the queen, that's some serious boss :D

[FreshSheet]

http://s1322.beta.photobucket.com/user/heart_mobs/media/queenslain_zps0bd820f4.png.html

So there you have it, possible to solo Act One AND kill the queen all with the paladin. No handicaps on either. (sorry for the link, it won't let me just show the picture in the post  )

[Hipshot]

@ FreshSheet, Congratulations completing the beta, w/o any helpers, have you played it in coop yet?

I saw the wiki, wikis are great but you probably know that the game is changing all the time, balance, costs, skills etc.

That local coop issue you talked about, it should of course be fixed!

I finished the act with 2 of my friends and i enjoyed it again, i have to say that the op feeling i had with the wizard kinda balanced itself when I reached the weapon npc. Also while the paladin isn't really fun at the beginning, when you make the dmg update, increase the arc and understand a bit more the gameplay it's actually really really fun !

I just regretted a bit to have played with infinite lives when i reached the queen, that's some serious boss :D

We will add a new shop to the game, where you can buy potions and 1ups, one of these stores will be in the bosslevel. These items will of course not be cheap! The boss itself will also be a bit easier but when you die you need to redo it instead.

This game looks awesome :D! Keep up with the good work.
I saw some people complaining about the lack of variety in the first act and I really think that one more enemy type would be nice but what do you think about adding some "Mini-bosses"?

They could be bigger versions of the "elite monsters" with a colored aura indicating their special power (e.g. green = faster, red = more hp, ...) and would have an additional attack with more bullets, bigger bullets or whatever.

In our prototype, I did just that, I took a regular enemy and put a circle around his feet. Upped the damage and HP a bit and had them gurading treasures and special doors. I have thought about adding them back into the game...

I really enjoyed the Beta, I get the impression the level was designed (maybe a little too much) for people who want to try and time attack the game because when I played cautiously it was too easy but when I tried to rush past the packs the game suddenly became challenging and fun.  I think some of the "repetitive" feel of the game could be fixed if a few mini-bosses or other surprises appeared along the way. 

The only other critique I have is that I couldn't find much of a use for the Mage's fire-breath.  I think it could be given some utility if it left a temporary wall of flame that enemies would be forced to run around.  The Mage could use this to slow down enemies or to shield his allies. 

The firebreath seems difficult and annoying at start, but when you use it a bit more and learn how it works and in what situation, combined with the max mana upgrade, it's really strong.

[Seiseki]

Have you thought about adding new ways for enemies to appear?
Right now you can see rooms filled with enemies just sitting there.
Would make it feel more alive if enemies moved around and patrolled, but also if enemies could appear randomly out of holes, dark corners and from the ground.

[FreshSheet]

Yea for the wiki, I'm still adjusting it since I was inaccurate on a few points. I haven't tried co-op yet, but I have beaten the beta on each class. I only posted the paladin one as I initially thought it was impossible but I found a better strategy to use for the paladin (involved the invulnerability potion at the end). But I have found all the letters and I'm 99% sure I found all the secrets. So now I'm moving on to speedruns...

[Hipshot]

Have you thought about adding new ways for enemies to appear?
Right now you can see rooms filled with enemies just sitting there.
Would make it feel more alive if enemies moved around and patrolled, but also if enemies could appear randomly out of holes, dark corners and from the ground.

Oh, I have many ideas on that topic =) But right now, we don't support anything near a spawn that is synced to an animation. So I can't make them crawl out of walls and so. I'm pretty sure that's a feature for a sequel.

Yea, enemies are pretty static now, we could add a more advanced system with patrols and that would probably look really cool. Especially if you can have smaller enemies follow around a larger one, like a bodyguard or such.

Time however...

Yea for the wiki, I'm still adjusting it since I was inaccurate on a few points. I haven't tried co-op yet, but I have beaten the beta on each class. I only posted the paladin one as I initially thought it was impossible but I found a better strategy to use for the paladin (involved the invulnerability potion at the end). But I have found all the letters and I'm 99% sure I found all the secrets. So now I'm moving on to speedruns...

I would love to hear how fast you can speedrun it, I *think* the ranger might be the easier to do that with, because of the bombs, but I haven't really tried it.