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1034829 Posts in 41747 Topics- by 33342 Members - Latest Member: RocketBottleGames

August 22, 2014, 01:50:10 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsFinishedHammerwatch - On Steam the 12th
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Author Topic: Hammerwatch - On Steam the 12th  (Read 96301 times)
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 02:07:14 AM »

I dig the idea of connecting floors so you have to go back and forth between areas instead of a strictly linear progression. This is looking super rad, yo. I was actually just thinking about making a gauntlet-esque game the other day and this looks like basically exactly what I was imagining (except it's not sci fi). Definitely looking forward to this.

The idea is to make it a little bit less linear, in the old game, the levels were linear and when a level was completed you could not go back, instead of having a NPC-vendor, there's a small shop in between every level.

Wow, it's impressive! All looks solid and juicy. Watching the videos makes me think that the wizzard will be much harder to play (firing projectiles in only eight directions).

Right now, playing with the Xbox-controller, gives you 360 degrees shoot angles and analogue movement speed.

But, what we noted from seeing other people play and playing ourselves, is that because of this, you tend to miss more (sounds strange, but you miss and overcompensates and then you miss again) and since the game being so fast, it can get really stressful and annoying. To fix this, we might need to use some kind of auto aim or crosshair, but we rather just clamp the directions to 8, even on the controller.

With the wizard in general, most people seems to just after a little while, learn the range of the fireball and starts using the splash, until they become good enough with the movement and shooting.

It's actually kinda fun playing with the wizard. Because when you upgrade, the fireball reaches farther and you need to adapt a bit to the new extended range, it forces you to play slightly different.

Oh, the ranger should at the moment be the most difficult class, because the arrows don't plash, so you must hit directly on with it. It goes through monsters though and the range is "unlimited", so if you're good, you line up the monsters before you shoot.
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 02:26:23 AM »

To fix this, we might need to use some kind of auto aim or crosshair, but we rather just clamp the directions to 8, even on the controller.

I see what you are trying to do there. However, from my personal experience this won't fix your aiming issue unless you also restrict the movement to only work within the square grid. As soon as you still can move freely, restricting the movement to 8 directions won't solve your problem, it would even increase the difficulty further.

I'd personally try a mix of the following:

- Have a bigger hitbox for both, projectiles and enemies and be more forgiving with when something collides
- Try around a little bit with magnetic projectiles that tend to home in on enemies slighly
- Have an explicit aiming system that highlights enemies when you aim roughly in their direction. When the shot is fired while an enemy is highlighted, the shot is fired AT the enemy, instead of into the exact direction indicated by the thumbstick
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« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2013, 03:24:01 AM »

To fix this, we might need to use some kind of auto aim or crosshair, but we rather just clamp the directions to 8, even on the controller.

I see what you are trying to do there. However, from my personal experience this won't fix your aiming issue unless you also restrict the movement to only work within the square grid. As soon as you still can move freely, restricting the movement to 8 directions won't solve your problem, it would even increase the difficulty further.

I'd personally try a mix of the following:

- Have a bigger hitbox for both, projectiles and enemies and be more forgiving with when something collides
- Try around a little bit with magnetic projectiles that tend to home in on enemies slighly
- Have an explicit aiming system that highlights enemies when you aim roughly in their direction. When the shot is fired while an enemy is highlighted, the shot is fired AT the enemy, instead of into the exact direction indicated by the thumbstick

Thanks a lot for the advice in this matter. I've played a few sessions coop this weekend and looking at new people playing with the controller and missing is pretty annoying, because they don't expect to miss. However, when I tell them how it works, it usually goes a lot better, because they think more about aiming, but it really shouldn't be needed.

I think bigger hitboxes for player missiles might be a solution, but I will have to try it. I'm pretty sure bigger hitboxes for enemies won't work, cause I think right now their (melee) attack is also based on this hitbox (not 100% sure here).
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« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2013, 03:43:57 AM »

I can easily see the issue with missing while being able to fire projectiles in 360 degrees. But I tend to see this as 'people need a good deal of practice to get proficient with it' rather than anything else.

I would keep it as it is, maybe making the projectile's hitbox very slightly bigger if deemed necessary.

Keep in mind, players who struggle getting hits in might opt to just get closer to the targets in order to make hitting easier. In the long run, they would be able to keep themselves farther away as their aim improves.

Ever tried having the same person playing wizard/archer repeatedly over a few days and checked if aim improves, even if by a little?

Other than that, I see the balancing act as being pretty spot on. The Knight and Warlock need to get up and personal with the enemy, while Wizard and Archer can attack from safe distance but have to deal with aiming.

You can maybe make things easier for ranged classes by using skills cleverly. So maybe The Archer might fire fans of arrows in a small angle, making the whole Aiming issue a whole lot less sever (when using such skill, at least). The Wizard might instead fire an oversized fireball, which pierces through enemies and deals splash damage in a huge area.

Just a few thoughts!
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« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2013, 03:27:57 AM »

It's very important that the aiming system feels accurate enough for "reflex" shots, there might not be time to focus and aim. And the xbox-controller makes it all so much more random, cause when you think you have the stick straight up, it might be a tad bit to the left and then you miss.

I have already increased the size of the collision of the bat and from now, also on the arrows you shoot with the ranger, we will look into more tweaking of this in the future.

Tried outputing a gif instead of a video to the tube, became kinda large for showing almost nothing =) Well, at least it shows a quick preview of the new Eye-enemy, damage numbers and also loot drops.

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« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2013, 03:46:42 AM »

If you feel like the analog controls don't go extremely well together with the pacing and the rhythm of the game, you might want to try limit the firing directions by subdividing the whole gamut of possible angles into very tiny intervals.

That would have a similar effect to the 8-ways approach, but allowing for many more possible shooting directions. As in: limiting the firing in 3 degrees intervals would allow for high aiming freedom while still having a bit of room to avoid tiny input errors by the player.

Hope it makes sense. Loving the new stuff Wink
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« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2013, 06:04:55 AM »

Lookin' sexy as hell!
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« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2013, 08:43:37 AM »

Man, this is looking downright awesome.
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 08:14:07 AM »



Spike traps, can be turned off and on by buttons or timer. In the animation, it's just one, but these can be tiled up - there will be oceans of spikes.

Instead of just lowering the spikes down below when it's off, I trigger a shutter, it tells the players more clearly when they can walk on it and also gives them a chance to get away if the shutter begins to open.

Borders, can be color coded, to indicate which trap connects to what button. Buttons and traps doesn't need to be coded, but some are to make it easier for the player to understand what buttons do, or what button that controls which trap.
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2013, 08:17:35 AM »

Amazing ^^ Can't wait to play it
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2013, 10:20:26 PM »

Oh wow. I watched the videos you posted and you captured the hectic combat of gauntlet perfectly! I used to sit and play it on the NES with my mother and it's one of my fondest gaming memories.

I'd love to see a barbarian-type class complete with axe throwing if you're still creating character archetypes for players to select. I know you've got four types right now, but Monaco is also a four player co-op game with a cast of more than four characters.
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« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2013, 10:40:35 AM »

Update #5

AI
Ok, so Myran sat down and made some bugfixes to the AI (these are not yet represented in any video), but to sum it all up, he made the AI much tighter. In previous builds, the AI could move and attack at the same time, this made it very hard to kill enemies that were as fast or close to as fast as the player, without taking damage, now they work as the player, they need to stop when they attack, so they are much easier to avoid. Another big thing was that they could hit the player without even looking at him, this is also fixed so now you could actually run behind an enemy and strike him in the back, if you're fast enough! Systems like these rewards skilled players and me myself feel it added a lot to the game play experience! It's only the ranged AI that have some odd behavior left and also, the AI can sometimes slide around like they were on ice if they walks into each other.

Online/LAN MP!
It's just so great, now we have working online and LAN mp. It's such a difference playing online compared to sitting on the same computer. You are free to walk where ever you want, the screen doesn't adjust to all players on the same screen and so forth. Being unchained really makes you wanna break the party and go explore for yourself, but it could be very dangerous, since the scaling of enemy life and damage goes up the more players are in the game.

This also means that we soon will be able to have proper beta testing with people that are not developers of this game. However, this will most likely not be a public thing, in the beginning at least.

Theme B
Theme B - Armory. It's based on the old Archives look we had, same brown walls but higher and with much more detail.

The idea with the themes is to increase the detail level a little bit all the time, so that you feel that you travel to more civilized and richer parts of the castle

Theme B, Armory...


to compare with Theme A, Prison


This is the same E1M1-puzzle that I did with the old graphics, compare the old video with this and see the graphical difference.


I did a small survival script test level, just to see how it would feel in this game. Obviously with a proper system, that's gonna be awesome, collect loot and upgrade in between the waves - in COOP.




Oh wow. I watched the videos you posted and you captured the hectic combat of gauntlet perfectly! I used to sit and play it on the NES with my mother and it's one of my fondest gaming memories.

I'd love to see a barbarian-type class complete with axe throwing if you're still creating character archetypes for players to select. I know you've got four types right now, but Monaco is also a four player co-op game with a cast of more than four characters.

Thank you! We really hope, even though we're going in a direction more and more to a modern action rpg, stay true to the fast and accurate action of older games.

We have already designed our characters and it was important to have a melee only fighter in the game. But I'm not against the axe thrower idea at all, if we are given the opportunity later on, I wouldn't mind to add a DLC/patch fifth hero to the lineup, that is a pure warrior, not a fighter/healer like the paladin. In the mean time, you will have to do with the axe throwing enemies =)
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« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2013, 11:44:12 AM »

Loving this, looks very fast paced and easy to pick up.
Being somewhat of a roguelike, have you considered creating levels procedurally? It's great to head into a dungeon not knowing what to expect every time you play. http://teknopants.com/2011/05/shoot-first/ is a great example.
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« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2013, 06:33:41 PM »

Loving this, looks very fast paced and easy to pick up.
Being somewhat of a roguelike, have you considered creating levels procedurally? It's great to head into a dungeon not knowing what to expect every time you play. http://teknopants.com/2011/05/shoot-first/ is a great example.

No, we don't have that, we have had ideas for it. But I think we need to patch this one in. I know this is a big replayability thing but I hope our gameplay is solid enough to play at least one more time =)

The random idea we had was not to generate an entire level, but instead to be able to make selected parts of a level random, than we could keep our design somehow intact, but make the experience different every time.
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« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2013, 06:37:32 PM »

This looks awesome.  God bless you for making a hotseat multiplayer game!
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