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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesRealistic Espionage Games?
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Orz
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« on: February 05, 2013, 07:18:16 AM »

James Bond is OK, but I always liked John Le Carre movies.  The action is more psychological than physical.  Instead of a gun getting pointed in the protagonist's face, he might have the threat of getting his cover blown, and instead of seduction & assassination, he might have to concentrate on recruiting moles and figuring out people's loyalties.

Are there any games like this?  I think Tom Clancy produced one once, but it wasn't that great. 
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Chris Pavia
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 09:16:00 AM »

Spy Party.
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Orz
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 09:47:39 AM »

Instead of a gun getting pointed in the protagonist's face

No.
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crowe
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 11:11:54 AM »

Yes.
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FK in the Coffee
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 09:37:50 PM »

Gravity Bone + 30 Flights of Loving

Okay, maybe they're not "realistic," per se, but they do provide that authentic, "classic spy movie" feel.
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 04:16:32 AM »

I feel like this is a really tricky genre to port to a video game format, because espionage relies heavily on maintaining cover and smooth talking to avoid being caught. Those are really difficult to translate into a video game without other humans to meet.

The Metal Gear and Thief series covered stalking and hiding fairly well. Metal Gear especially discouraged and even outright punished killing opponents, though once you get a dart gun you can go to town. Thief emphasized the spy gadgetry angle with moss arrows and such. But both games still have a lot of projectile-weapon combat, and you really can't get away from that.

Werewolf (the party game) is really the only game I can think of that truly captures that spirit of maintaining cover through clever planning and fast talking, which seems like what you're really angling for. You'd need something multiplayer with human opponents to accomplish that in a videogame. Spy Party or maybe the multiplayer mode in Assassin's Creed are the closest video games I know.

Actually no, Space Station 13 might be a good game for this. In addition to modes where the station is attacked by meteors, or mutant monkeys, sometimes the game mode is set to traitor, and one player is actually a spy trying to accomplish some goal (steal a certain thing, kill a certain person) without getting caught or killed. It encourages sneaky roleplaying, since the traitor will need to pretend to be helpful by fulfilling whatever their role is on the ship, while finding time to sabotage, distract, and ultimately accomplish his or her goal. You can rewire doors, sabotage the AI (controlled by a player) or steal helpful tools. A well-played traitor game can end with the cast of players genuinely surprised to realize the traitor's identity, if they even realized a traitor was present. Sometimes, even, the traitor is the station's AI and then you get a Space Odyssey situation where the players are fighting against the ship's systems.
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 04:39:42 AM »

maybe not exactly what you want, but uplink comes close
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Orz
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 06:09:12 AM »


That sounds awesome.  Would run on my netbook too.  Downloading!

A well-played traitor game can end with the cast of players genuinely surprised to realize the traitor's identity, if they even realized a traitor was present. Sometimes, even, the traitor is the station's AI and then you get a Space Odyssey situation where the players are fighting against the ship's systems.

Also awesome.  That's exactly the feeling I'm trying to replicate.  But yeah, I agree it's difficult to get that kind of environment without other human players.
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 10:54:23 AM »

The whole 'cover being blown' thing reminds me of The Ship, and the Assassins Creed 3 multilayer.
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 10:47:21 AM »

The whole 'cover being blown' thing reminds me of The Ship

Oh man, I totally forgot about that game!  I saw it once on a European publishers' site.  Spy Party is kind of similar except for the "asymmetric multiplayer" aspect.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 05:35:25 PM »

Not sure a realistic espionage game can be a good game. Realism usually tends towards a jiggly mess.
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 07:18:38 PM »

realism is a state of mind. just don't fuck it up and you're okay.

--

I like sneaky sneak. I want to sneak into a lot of places. ... the best part of sneaking is waiting and not knowing what will happen next, and having no idea how you'll react to what happens, but you can't take your eyes of the prize - and plan your escape - because you'll be more likely to be caught if you do.

just like, describe some emotions from the movie or whatever, then show a mechanic that does it. the design is totally reasonable. you just have to figure it out for a while. and we will help, maybe.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:24:15 PM by Graham. » Logged
J-Snake
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 08:09:39 PM »

It's not like it has to be deterministic when it is not realistic. You can have all that, only in a reasonable frame.

But I would find a realistic espionage simulation interesting aswell, only I doubt it is possible to implement it into the small frame a game offers.
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 08:26:00 PM »

Well, you can just simulate 1 or two things "realistically." You just have to manage your scope. That's all.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 09:30:39 PM »

Do you want to have a realistic espionage simulation or a realistic simulation about a small subset of a mechanic? I think that's the problem. Even Gran Turismo is too simple to be a driving simulator despite the only focus on car-mechanics.
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 09:46:20 PM »

mm... "realism" refers to the kind of feeling play gives you. ... it's like if I say "fun, I want a fun game," that suggest nothing about scale. ... often devs think realism means everything has to be realistic, but I think this is just a confusion about what is necessary to give something a realistic feel. every game is just a subset of some larger thing. scale and experience are separate ideas.

if realism meant wholly realistic than the only real game would be life itself, nullifying the point of the term. so obviously this isn't the case.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 10:24:36 PM »

A computer model is the more realistic the more it corresponds to empiric results.
Just assuming the right feel isn't very scientific.
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 10:34:59 PM »

you're missing the point. "how" the experience is created is a separate question. any simulation is a subset of reality.

also, "feel" is what games are about. science will give you one feel. you don't get to shortcut the design process by simulating accurately.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 12:23:11 PM »

"feel" is what games are about.
That and playability is why I suggest a game in the first place, and not a realistic simulation.
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 12:32:56 PM »

mincing words. "realism" is a descriptive word. "simulation" is your word.

you keep trying to say realism requires some huge scale, or some kind of simulation. it does not. it just means that it feels real. Mario: not real. Forza: more real. Bushido Blade: semi-real.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 12:38:31 PM by Graham. » Logged
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