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1055462 Posts in 42859 Topics- by 34786 Members - Latest Member: bigfootcrane

October 21, 2014, 03:58:45 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreative (Moderator: John Sandoval)Gamedeving with no stress. 8)
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PompiPompi
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« on: February 09, 2013, 06:50:53 AM »

I think I have reached the point I am enjoying game dev again without the stress of trying to be successesful.

Background story(skip if it bores you)
I got a really good job. It pays well and the people are really nice there.
On the other hand, thinking hard about what mobile game I should make to be successful and how long will it take me to make it removed most of the fun from making games.

I got worried that now that I have a job I won't have enough time to invest in making my game. But that is only important if you are so anxious to finish it fast or to bring it to the market.

Now I have got back to my older PC project Shoe String Shooter.
I don't need to worry about when I finish it, because I don't care how long it will take me. I do this for fun.
I don't need to worry about artwork, or about making a game that has potential to bring money or fans.
I don't care that I don't have much time to work on it because of all the above.

What I want to ask...
What I want to ask is how many of you guys are being stressed about making a successful game?
How many of you develop for mobile because it's a bigger market although your dream game is on a desktop?
Do you think that beginner indies like me and others should develop games just for fun and not for a specific goal? What about the more experienced indies?
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impulse9
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 07:44:58 AM »

Put honest effort into making a game. Let time decide everything else.
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PompiPompi
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 07:55:25 AM »

Since I don't have a specific goal to strive for. Except maybe for finsihing somethign I can play with my friends.
As such, if it will feel like a chore or work or I won't enjoy it, I won't have much reason to continue doing it unless I have something to strive for.

I think this is why people burn out. They continue working on the game even when they don't enjoy it, but what drives them is the goal at the end or other exterior feedback.

Well you do need a goal. I would like others to enjoy my work, but instead of going with the approach of everything(successful game) or nothing(unfinished\ unsuccessful game) I take the middle ground of not caring how far I am from completing a game but still care about crating stuff.
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ANtY
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 09:19:01 AM »

my goal is for my game to be played by more than 10 ppl I've never met and at least some of them to let known what they think about it without forcing them to write feedback

seems unachievable atm tho

also I think making dos and don'ts for less and/or more "experienced" indies is bs, everyone is different, they make games for different purposes and their level of indieness is varied

is an ex-programmer from EA creating an indie studio and a ks campaign with 1kk goal an experienced indie or not? that doesn't matter, he doesn't care about tips for beginner indies, nor you should

I think you think too much about making games instead of doing it, seriously

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I think I have reached the point I am enjoying game dev again without the stress of trying to be successesful
if it ain't broke don't fix it
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 09:24:29 AM by ANtY » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 09:30:40 AM »

i never really experienced any stress when working on my games. there may be some stress associated with releasing it however (since you have to deal with customers, reviews, marketing, and all that stuff) but while i'm working on it i'm pretty much absolutely stress-free, and i'm not thinking at all about that release stuff while i'm working on it, i'm just thinking about how to make the game better
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Gregg Williams
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 09:55:22 AM »

It depends on your circumstances obviously. Back in 2007-2011 when I was working as a software developer and architect, making tons of money, had tons of benefits, etc, the only real stress was self created stress to finish games, and be able to go independent full time. (Other than stress of the actual job, thats a whole other story.)

Than April of 2011 I decided I was going fulltime indie regardless of the risks, and stresses, I quit my job.  I had zero income, other than from games, while also having dependents, a 300k mortgage, credit cards, and other junk. Stress? Oh you can believe it.

Fast forward through 2 years of that, completing with multiple game releases, foreclosure and law suits, and I'm back in a more comfortable situation. I work from home, do around 20ish hours of game contract work a week which pays pretty much all of my current expenses, and the rest of the time is open to doing my own development.

This made a lot of sense, as I wanted to do a bigger game (M.I.N.T), and before I needed to make small games that could be finished quickly to keep generating income. Now I don't have to worry about that part, nor what happens when one of those games sells poorly. Much less stress currently, yet not fully independent anymore. 


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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 10:05:09 AM »

I'm in the same situation workwise (ie: decent job, no stress etc) but am coming into gamedev for the first time since I was a kid. My goal is just to play with the concepts of game development for a few reasons: learning new skills, meeting interesting people and having some fun. If an actual factual, finished game pops out, or an idea that *must* be created then so be it.

I can imagine that many thousands of inspired, well developed games never see the light of day and conversely that low-brow games still get consumed on mass by the great unwashed. We're in a good place to be realistic; if your goal is to enjoy yourself, then enjoy away.

My 2 pence anyhow
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Graham-
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 10:12:44 AM »

Depends on how easily bills are getting paid.
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 10:16:59 AM »

yeah i think that's true. but it also depends on how little you're able to live on, and how much savings you have, etc.

i think the idea of quitting a well paying job to go indie full time is okay, but if you are going to do that, the best thing to do would be to save up about a year or two's costs of living in a bank account first. and learn how to live on as little money as possible (e.g. no eating out, cook all your own food, learn to buy food in bulk, etc.). that way you won't feel as much stress when you quit.
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Gregg Williams
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 10:20:32 AM »

For the record, I do think stress is a two edged blade, it can be harmful, but its also a very powerful motivator.
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 10:37:45 AM »

As long as you don't lose the inspiration.

Living cheaply and not going insane is a talent if you're not used to it.
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 10:41:32 AM »

yep, i think a small amount of stress is good since it'd prevent you from getting distracted or giving up, but too large an amount can reduce productivity by making you too frantic and unplanned, like a chicken with its head cut off, trying to do everything at once. i think most people have a problem with too much stress rather than too little though (but there are certainly some whose problem is too little stress)

i think it also matters what you're stressed *about* -- if you're stressed about money, that might cause you to care more about a game's marketability than its quality. if however you're stressed about whether your players will enjoy your game and gain value from it or not, that can lead to better games. most of my stress (what little i have) comes from wondering whether or not my fans will enjoy my current game as much as my last one (whether i can live up to immortal defense's praise), not from whether it will sell well or not
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 10:53:03 AM »

Yeah, I think using things like stress to your own advantage is a skill that you have to learn as well. Like when I first got back into making freeware I was looking at all the other games and thinking shit I can't be an equal of that, but over time I've learnt to use that feeling of inferiority to strive to improve my games. Now I rather like seeing what other people are doing as it pushes me on.
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oodavid
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 10:54:59 AM »

With regards to stress being a motivator, I like to give myself small, incremental deadlines which have the same effect. Simple things like:

  • My mates are over on Saturday, I want something playable for then
  • I'm going to a developer meetup, I need to have my visual assets done
  • I want to go to the Pub at 6, must have this code committed

Regardless of your ultimate goal, this helps keep things moving along at a decent pace, I've always found I have dev issues whenever I stop and start, sure the week-long coding bender can seem amazing cause you can get "a month of work completed" but if you stick to that regime you'll need long breaks inbetween, breaks where you forget what you were doing. Or where you realise (with time) that you made some terrible decisions.

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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 11:33:58 AM »

Kind of a tangent. Stress for beginners sometimes pushes them towards the "bloat" strategy, turning their designs into something too large. (I've done this!)

..

I think the hardest part of being indie, at least for me, is not having the people around me who know what's going on. Even when I was working full time on non game stuff, my colleagues had a cursory understanding of what I was doing for my own stuff. And more importantly, the pattern of interacting with others about work gave me clear milestones in my head about where my game needed to be, whether I would share my successes in reaching those milestones or not. I just needed the idea of sharing them. This is where meetups, and of course TIGs, comes in.

..

I guess you dial the pressure to what you can handle.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 12:05:27 PM by Graham. » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2013, 11:42:31 AM »

To your questions....

Quote
What I want to ask is how many of you guys are being stressed about making a successful game?

No. I'll be a success. I'm more stressed about dying in the process.

Quote
How many of you develop for mobile because it's a bigger market although your dream game is on a desktop?

You have to do whatever it takes to support yourself. Decide what you need to live, make enough money for that, then stop feeling guilty.

Quote
Do you think that beginner indies like me and others should develop games just for fun and not for a specific goal? What about the more experienced indies?

You should develop games that you believe in. Only you can know what your life needs, and only then probably after experimenting some.
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2013, 11:51:01 AM »

How many of you develop for mobile because it's a bigger market although your dream game is on a desktop?
My dream-game is on desktop or on tv. I found an idea to target an alternative version of TrapThem to the mobile market because of the audience, but only since I can identify myself with the game. So it is not just for it's own sake, the game takes advantage of touch-controls, making it the superior input system offering something I would like to play myself.

So nothing wrong going mobile if you have found an idea you can identify yourself with, otherwise you are in a rotten state of being indeed.
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 02:13:49 PM »

My 2 cents:

Quote from: PompiPompi
What I want to ask is how many of you guys are being stressed about making a successful game?
Not really stress about making a successful game per se, but I can get pretty worked up when I feel like 'm on to a good idea. It always starts to seem very obvious to me and I start getting worried someone's going to release something similar right before I do Smiley

Also, since I have a fulltime day job on the side, I hate that progress just goes very, very slowly sometimes. But it's managed by committing to doing at least 1 thing every day that forwards the project.

Like oodavid mentioned, break every project up into parts and focus on completing these parts.

Quote from: PompiPompi
How many of you develop for mobile because it's a bigger market although your dream game is on a desktop?
Not at all. I really like developing for mobile devices. I feel like the playing field is finally level again, since everybody had to start from scratch learning how to best use the ARM based processors and touch based input devices. Besides, I really feel that mobile gaming is going to be even more important in the near future.

Quote from: PompiPompi
Do you think that beginner indies like me and others should develop games just for fun and not for a specific goal? What about the more experienced indies?
Of course ! There's no way you're going to make any money in it ! Indies, one-man-armies and lone wolves like us should be in it for the fun. Otherwise we can be sure we won't get anything at all out of it...

I always like hearing about people that are able to support themselves doing this. I'm sure it's possible for anyone who sets his/her mind to it. It's just very unlikely.. 

I, for one, am not about to give up my day job anytime soon Smiley


 
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 03:58:16 AM »

For the record, I do think stress is a two edged blade, it can be harmful, but its also a very powerful motivator.

Never thought of it in that sense.
It does make a lot of sense though, I know I'm not OP but Thankyou.
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Muz
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 07:38:09 PM »

I can't really make games part time. I spend the whole day coding. By night, I'm all burnt out on writing code.

But honestly, I don't think it's possible to make money off games. I mean, hell, you can point to these people who've worked their asses off for years and make millions. And then you can do multi level marketing or resell trinkets and make millions with far less time and effort. Or heck, my job is just making apps for big companies that pay tens of thousands of dollars for a fairly simple app that took a few months to do.

Gamedev is great as a hobby and as some kind of creative output, but I see it as something to do after I have enough money to last a lifetime, or if I can hire out a bunch of people to make a game, like a patronage system or something.

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How many of you develop for mobile because it's a bigger market although your dream game is on a desktop?

I love mobile development for a whole range of reasons. But IMO, mobile games are not that profitable. The majority want cheap, even free games. Mobile is not a get rich quick thing, you'll have to fail a lot of times before you come up with the next Angry Birds. The skills are barely transferable to desktop, like writing a novel vs writing a history book.

If you need the money, do something else. Or find a middle ground and make tablet games, where you still benefit off the app store.
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