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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessHow do I market a consulting service?
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Reactorcore
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« on: February 10, 2013, 06:46:22 AM »

Hello.

I recently launched a new game design consulting service at www.reactorcoregames.com, but what good is it if no one knows about it?

My question is how do I market it and where to?  Undecided

I've read a big bunch of marketing guides on pixelprospector.com, but those focus on marketing actual games, so not all points apply to it and I'm not sure if its a good idea to send a press release to the same website you would send a game otherwise.

While my service is not exactly a game, it is still game related.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Ant
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 06:51:25 AM »

First of all you're site design looks incredibly amateurish, it does not make a good first impression at all. Other than that I think your best bet is to actually make some extremely well designed games so you have something to show, then once you've got some clients onboard you can begin to create a portfolio.
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shay.yizhak
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 07:28:02 AM »

First of all you're site design looks incredibly amateurish, it does not make a good first impression at all. Other than that I think your best bet is to actually make some extremely well designed games so you have something to show, then once you've got some clients onboard you can begin to create a portfolio.

I agree. Your site looks very amateurish. If you're not a web designer - spend some cash, and buy a template.
If you want to consult about designing games - you should have a few good examples under your belt. That should be part of your portfolio - something for me - the client - to look at. After all - if you have no proven experience, why should I hire you?
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chris_b
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 12:05:01 PM »

If you want to consult about designing games - you should have a few good examples under your belt.

Yeah - 200€ up-front for a day of emailing an anonymous person, who doesn't appear to have actually made any games, about "Hardcore Game Design" isn't a very compelling offer.
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Graham-
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 12:20:06 PM »

I read your criticism of Terraria. I'll give some very direct feedback, because it seems like you can handle it.
  1. You argue with people too much.
  2. You don't organize your thoughts. They are too conversational.
  3. You spend too much time pitching your own ideas, instead of working with theirs.
        -> Bending to the client is the most important part of consulting

The positive. You are in-depth, get replies, and have a lot to say. ... I think you can make this work, maybe, so I'll tell you how to grow your business.
  1. Continue to establish your portfolio, and organize it into a digestible way on your site.
  2. Actually complete something. Show A -> B examples: of designs going from one state to another because of your help.
  3. Give free consultation to (select?) applicants to start with.
  4. Approach everyone everywhere making a game (who can pay) with a personalized pitch about why you can help them i.e. give design solutions.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 12:37:56 PM »

i agree with those above. what you need to do is:

a) make some successful games. why would i want the game design advice of someone who has *no* successful games, or, to my knowledge, any finished games?

b) AFTER you do a) (and that's a big "after"), offer consultations with other indies for free. use these as examples of your consultation advice. get testimonials from them; get quotes from famous indies who have made use of your advice. gain a list of famous games, not made by you, but which you consulted (for free) on

c) after you do a) and b), directly email all indies you know with the above information, describing your consulting business and linking them to your site. start with a lower price -- $50 is fair. because there are so few professional indie developers it's relatively easy to just reach out to all of them directly via email, so that they know you exist. but they will ignore you unless you do a) and b) first, obviously

it's also not a good idea to link to the terreria thing as an example. most of the fan feedback / response to your idea was negative; if the majority of fans of a successful game don't like your ideas for improving that game, that's a clue that your ideas would not make a game better
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 12:46:33 PM by Paul Eres » Logged

Reactorcore
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 04:33:57 AM »

First of all you're site design looks incredibly amateurish, it does not make a good first impression at all. Other than that I think your best bet is to actually make some extremely well designed games so you have something to show, then once you've got some clients onboard you can begin to create a portfolio.

Okay.

A did a few improvements and added the fact that I worked on Cortex Command and added a link to small demo on Terraria Online on the brutally thorough and honest style I give my feedback as. Hopefully its more convincing now.


@Graham:
@Paul Eres:


I'm currently working on a game, but have not publicly announced it just yet. That will be a proof of my skill when it comes out, but until then, the Cortex Command mention and the Terraria super feedback will be the proof for now.

Also yes, I have actually done some free consulting for a few minor indies for free and they did appreciated my work, although they're not famous or known per se, so I'm not sure if there any effect to adding their testimonials on the site.


Quote
2. You don't organize your thoughts. They are too conversational.

What do you mean by this? Whats a better way to do it?


As for tone, style and reception of the Terraria post, this is a very accurate representation of what I'm offering. While I do take into account the existing framework and see what can be done about it, sometimes you really do need an overhaul to take things to the next level and this is the case with Terraria in my opinion.

I do my best to respect the vision and the ideas of the client, but completely bending down to accept them as the absolute best isn't healthy, nor it won't be enough for me to do my work properly.


EDIT:

By the way, where to send announcements for gamedev-related services?
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Aik
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 07:58:01 AM »

Well, I guess you'd market either by networking with game developers or advertising on developer websites like gamasutra. Post insightful things on gamedev.net with a link in your signature, or such?

But I suspect that there isn't a market for what you're selling. Or perhaps there is, but it's already filled by industry professionals who have been designing games professionally for thirty years or whatever.
The idea of consulting is that you're selling your deep and profound experience in something that the other person doesn't have, yeah?

In any case, your pricing is nuts. Not that it's necessarily too high for 8 hours of work, but why on earth are you only selling in 8 hour intervals? Who wants to buy a block of 8 hours? If it were 8 hours spread out over the life of the project that might make more sense. But why 8 hours? Paying for a critique the game/certain systems would be much more cost-effective and useful.
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crowe
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 08:08:07 AM »

A did a few improvements and added the fact that I worked on Cortex Command and added a link to small demo on Terraria Online on the brutally thorough and honest style I give my feedback as. Hopefully its more convincing now.

Frankly, work on two unfinished and not entirely well liked games is not overly impressive, but it is an improvement over the previous design. CVs will always be more impressive to a prospective employer than appearing to be completely inexperienced.
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shay.yizhak
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 08:51:44 AM »

If you want your site to look more professional, and you can't create one yourself - please use web-templates. It's preferable that you buy a premium one, but if you can't - even a free one will look much better.
As it stand at the moment - the site is hideous (no offense). As a potential customer, if I can on to that site - I'll leave it immediately. I won't even bother reading the rest of your content.
Here's an example of a free template:
http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/preview/businessworldtemplate/

If you don't like it - you can find thousands more on that site, and on templatemonster.com.

Do yourself a favor - buy a good one. Looks is EVERYTHING!
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Reactorcore
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 11:09:19 AM »

If you want your site to look more professional, and you can't create one yourself - please use web-templates. It's preferable that you buy a premium one, but if you can't - even a free one will look much better.
As it stand at the moment - the site is hideous (no offense). As a potential customer, if I can on to that site - I'll leave it immediately. I won't even bother reading the rest of your content.
Here's an example of a free template:
http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/preview/businessworldtemplate/

If you don't like it - you can find thousands more on that site, and on templatemonster.com.

Do yourself a favor - buy a good one. Looks is EVERYTHING!


Wow, is it really that bad? What exactly puts you off about it? I don't understand what is wrong with it.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 11:16:36 AM »

the jpg compression was the first thing that put me off

the color choice is pretty bad (why christmas colors?)

the buttons and the texture behind them look like they're from 1993

it's not the worst site i've ever seen, but it's definitely in the top 100 worst ones
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CowBoyDan
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 11:30:06 AM »

I would be happy to help you with your consulting business, for a fee. 

If you are asking how to go about being market a consulting service for such a marketing heavy industry, you probably shouldn't be one.  How are you going to help improve and market a game if you cannot market yourself?

Don't confuse being a critic with being a consultant.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 11:49:47 AM »

You can be a good design consultant and not know the first thing about marketing...
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Laserbrain Studios
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Reactorcore
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 12:30:40 PM »

the jpg compression was the first thing that put me off

the color choice is pretty bad (why christmas colors?)

the buttons and the texture behind them look like they're from 1993

it's not the worst site i've ever seen, but it's definitely in the top 100 worst ones

For the jpg, yeah it seems I pushed the optimization too far. Probably the shadow effects on the text contributed to that.

As for the color scheme, its fine. It works the same way as blue-orange, if you get what I mean.


@CowBoyDan:

The thread was more about asking possible targets I could market my service at and hints related to it. Aik, a few posts above, pretty much mentioned some valid options. Blogging for gamasutra is one of the things on my list to do for example.

As for generally knowing how to market, pixel prospector gave me a competent primer to get started. I really recommend the indie resources on that site. Simply brilliant.

And don't worry, I do know the difference between a critic and a consultant. I've worked with game design challenges for years and have done significant research on the concept of an infinite game, among other things, which certainly have a market in the industry.
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shay.yizhak
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 12:49:41 PM »

If you want your site to look more professional, and you can't create one yourself - please use web-templates. It's preferable that you buy a premium one, but if you can't - even a free one will look much better.
As it stand at the moment - the site is hideous (no offense). As a potential customer, if I can on to that site - I'll leave it immediately. I won't even bother reading the rest of your content.
Here's an example of a free template:
http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/preview/businessworldtemplate/

If you don't like it - you can find thousands more on that site, and on templatemonster.com.

Do yourself a favor - buy a good one. Looks is EVERYTHING!


Wow, is it really that bad? What exactly puts you off about it? I don't understand what is wrong with it.

Didn't mean to offend. The site just doesn't look good. It looks like a site from 1999. Compare it to the link I sent ya, and you'll see it.

Don't forget - if you somehow manage to convince me to go to your site - that's the FIRST thing I see. And the color scheme (red, black and white) just doesn't work for that type of site. It doesn't scream PRO.

Check the sites I gave. Choose a better template. Your site should look like you put some real thought into it, and not just threw something together with some basic HTML. Trust me - no serious client will hire you while this site is the face of your company.

Also - remove the pricing from the site. Ask the client to leave contact information and get back to him. Putting the price on the site scares people off.
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Graham-
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 01:05:16 PM »

I'm not talking about testimonials.... Do work for people so you can build a portfolio, then show your work to other people. That will be your fee: "hello, I will help design your game, but I'd like to share some of the results publicly."

Indies don't want to be told they need an overhaul, even if they do need one. Your review of Terraria seemed to miss the point of it. The game is about freedom. Not having a goal in it is a sticky issue. Minecraft has no goal and has sold 16 million copies. Use your head.

I am telling you, for one, that I value consultation, and someday would pay for it, just because "why not," but I don't want to have to justify what I know is great about my game to someone else who has their own ideas. I am making my game _because_ I have a special instinct about its core quality. That makes me an expert. ... You have to be very careful about when you try to overrule, and when you try to understand.

By "conversational" I mean you express your thoughts, but you don't present them as actionable items. You don't say, "do X, then Y, then Z, in these exact ways, accepting these kinds of costs." Turning what you suggest into a plan, at least a potential one, is a whole other step. ... You give the idea of solutions, not actual solutions. I can play any game and give the idea of solutions off the top of my head. Actual solutions take work. That's what the payment is for, ideally.

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Reactorcore
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 02:42:16 PM »

Your site should look like you put some real thought into it, and not just threw something together with some basic HTML.

*It took me a couple weeks, lots of learning, planning, serious thought and serious design to build the entire website*

okay.jpg

Anyway, I see your point, but for now I'll consider it a question of different tastes. Every detail in this website was very deliberate in design and function. Later on if it really screws me over, I'll give it an overhaul using a template like you suggested.


@ Graham:

Most developers are quite seperate from each other and may not take kindly into intruding consultants to offer giving advice. Atleast I wouldn't take kindly to it, so I'm reluctant to do that.
I'd rather have myself out there for those who need me through being visible in places where I'd expect a developer to come looking for.
That and having my game project drive the traffic too.

This service is really for those who are ready for it and need it, hence its called "hardcore" since its specialized for such games, although not limited to them.

As for topics on who needs and is ready to an overhaul or whether terraria or minecraft wouldn't work with goals, it can easily turn into a flame war, since this is a thing where theres more to this than what meets the eye. I'd have to go great lenghts to explain the reasoning behind my logic for the feedback. This topic is not for that, but you're free to ask my PM or start a new thread about it.

It ties into the research for the infinite game, which is a very intricate thing in itself.

As for the whole "giving ideas for solutions", isn't that the point of game design consulting? I'm not gonna suddenly get access to the clients source code and do his coding work for him, now am I? Thats a whole different service.
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Graham-
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2013, 03:13:41 PM »

No, I'm saying you list a series of observations, instead of proposals to solve them. For example, many of your solutions had many problems of their own. These problems had solutions in your mind, I'm sure, if you chose to work them out, but you did not express them. Consulting is the following:
  1. Here is your product.
  2. Here is its flaws.
  3. Here are solutions.
You did half of step 1, all of 2, and a cursory look at 3.

The amount of work you do is up to you. I am just pointing out the biggest things for you to work on. Depends how much work you want to get.

Don't intrude on people. Offer free work, and share your results. Customers need an idea of what you are offering. ... The best way to get clients is to approach people directly, or pay for marketing. Then as you grow the word will spread. ... I don't know what you're thinking but it sounds like you're just expecting people to look you up. You need to get in people's faces I think.

There's no "flame war." I am not saying exploration is better or worse than goal-oriented games. What I am saying is that both have extremely strong cases, and the client prefers one over the other, and you are trying to change their mind. Dead end. They don't want that.
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2013, 05:12:44 PM »

I find it fascinating that you expect people want so badly to receive your criticism that they should pay you money for it while you are so adamant against considering the criticisms that others have of your own work.
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