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1073662 Posts in 43996 Topics- by 36019 Members - Latest Member: zevvu

December 20, 2014, 07:05:33 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesPlaystation 4
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Mipe
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« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 04:30:08 AM »

Just make a fun, bugless and chrome-polished game and you'll get on PSN in no time.

Wait, I see why that would be very hard...  Huh?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2013, 04:40:22 AM »

there are reasons there are so few indie games for the psn. count the number of them and compare them to the number on the xbla and wii virtual console -- it's something on the order of five to ten times fewer. it's the most tightly closed of all of the closed platforms. i'm in a couple of business related indie game mailing lists so i've heard the private stories of people trying to get games on the psn, and almost without exception they have nightmare stories of how unfriendly sony was towards them, and how terrible they were to work with
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Mipe
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« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2013, 04:47:35 AM »

Well, I can easily imagine that, with Sony being a humongous company. They have guidelines for guidelines, they're THAT big. And the bigger they are, the harder to deal with they get. It's like a fly poking an elephant to ask it for some sugar, then the elephant takes forever to notice the fly and by the time it turns around to respond, the fly's long past its lifetime.

Microsoft has its shit a little better organized, so it isn't as painful (not that there is no pain at all when dealing with them. Ugh.)
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2013, 04:52:42 AM »

well, it's not just that they don't notice small indies, it's that even indies that already have games on the psn or indies where sony has accepted their game for the psn and they're in the process of getting it on have their emails ignored for months sometimes, or aren't paid on time, or are led along and led to believe that their game is just about to launch on the psn only to have sony suddenly change their mind without explanation, things like that

and these aren't just unknown indies i'm talking about, i mean people who already have games on xbla and steam and have sold in some cases millions of copies who also sometimes get this treatment
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Mipe
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« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2013, 04:57:29 AM »

Yeah, that is why you need to have at least a cousin working in Sony to get things done.

Still looking for a Japanese girlfriend (can be slightly tsun, it's OK, I dig it) with at least one of parents working in Sony.
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 05:34:11 AM »

ya, tho that trick wouldn't have worked for edmund mcmillen cause he's already married -- i remember something about how, even though he had a sony dev kit and ported the game to psn, sony never replied to his emails after he submitted his super meat boy build to them, so that's why super meat boy never appeared on the psn. and that was like one of the biggest indie games of that year

(this edmund has admitted publicly in interviews so i'm not breaking that indie newsgroup's privacy by talking about it, btw -- there are worse stories i can't even mention due to those indies not wanting it revealed publicly because they don't want to sour future relations with sony by complaining openly)

i think what they really need to do is just hire someone competent to handle sony-indie relations rather than someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 05:39:52 AM by Paul Eres » Logged

C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 07:30:59 AM »

Actually if we are honest for a second consoles don't make really sense anymore since everything they do can be achieved on a computer or a mobile computer (for less power hungry games) plugged to your tv. The main reason for their existence is simply our cultural conditioning for ease and lazyness, people are expected to be too lazy to plug in some cables or pc-input-devices.

I have yet to find a PC that plugs into a TV quite as easily as a game console, runs natively in a 10' experience, and is priced competitively with a console. We may start to see such PCs appear soon (Win8 MCPCs, SteamBox, Apple's rumored TV thing), but at the moment they are still pretty firmly in the enthusiast camp. They're not a mainstream thing just yet.

The technology has to stabilize a bit and become cheaper and more accessible to the common folk for that to happen. Once that happens, it will "explode" overnight as if no one was expecting it to.
pc gaming is mainstream in most of europe and has been forever haha.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 07:52:34 AM »

hdmi inputs to video cards *are* mainstream now; almost all new videocards have hdmi output which can go into any hdmi tv (and almost all new tv's are hdmi now)
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« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 09:08:25 AM »

The dream of using computers instead of consoles for the living room isn't going to come true until computers are as easy to purchase and maintain as consoles. Consoles are appealing to average consumers who just want to plug in a box and play games. They are convenient.

A full-on computer is not only quite expensive, but not convenient in the slightest. For tech nerds such as I, that is half the appeal. I actually enjoy taking computers apart and tinkering with them. But I am definitely a fringe case, a small minority in a world full of people who are afraid of a computer's insides.

This is actually an area where I feel Sony is moving in the right direction with the PS4. It's clear from their presentation that they have put a lot more thought into the smoothness and convenience of the user experience. They are putting hardware into the PS4 specifically for that purpose. The "sleep-mode" on the PS4, as well as the background downloading, and even downloading and updating while the system is inactive, are all very positive and forward-thinking developments.

Sony still has a lot to prove. But I felt pretty good about this presentation. I was impressed at the level of developer feedback they sought out for the architecture of the system itself. Sony coasted without serious competition through their first two consoles. With the PS3, they got their nose bloodied, and found out what it's like when your competition isn't screwing around. Now they seem to be thinking carefully about their new system.
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« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 09:39:19 AM »

http://kotaku.com/5985822/why-were-there-no-women-presenters-at-the-playstation-4-event
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 09:55:12 AM »


Check your privilege, gamers.

Also, I love how that whole four-boobed ad is still a thing.  I literally just got done trying to explain where Sony was coming from on another site, because I really like the way Sony advertises even if I haven't bought a Sony product in forever.
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Ant
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« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2013, 10:00:04 AM »

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/21/4013500/no-women-onstage-at-Sony-PS4-event-game-industry-feminism

predicting comment shitstorm in 3.. 2.. 1..
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2013, 10:01:35 AM »


THIS IS WHAT THE GAMING INDUSTRY LOOKS LIKE:

... 

...guys who have no idea what to do with their hands? 
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Tuba
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« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2013, 10:05:32 AM »

I always had the impression that Sony was the easiest one to get in... I always see indie developers complaining about MS policies but never about Sony.

Also, in the last few years, I remember more indie games on the PS3 than on the 360 or Wii: Snapshot, Closure, Dyad, Sound Shapes, Retro City Rampage (that was first released on the PS3/Vita), not to mention stuff funded by Sony like Unfinished Swan and thatgamecompany games.


Gamasutra has a good interview with Shuhei Yoshida about the "openness" of the PS4, they say they are trying to make it more open but you still need an SDK and devkit to develop for the console: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/187093/QA_What_does_Sonys_most_open_console_promise_mean.php#.USZWOFpes2c
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« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2013, 10:07:53 AM »

Who gives a shit. Nobody would say a thing if only women were having presentations at the latest [insert brand with 90% female audience] conference.

Anyway, all the download and social stuff is cool, but it doesn't actually open new gameplay possibilities. Except maybe for the abillity to watch and drop in someone else's play session, but I don't see alot of games going any further than allowing someone to watch and take over the controls.
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« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2013, 10:12:41 AM »

I always had the impression that Sony was the easiest one to get in... I always see indie developers complaining about MS policies but never about Sony.

Also, in the last few years, I remember more indie games on the PS3 than on the 360 or Wii: Snapshot, Closure, Dyad, Sound Shapes, Retro City Rampage (that was first released on the PS3/Vita), not to mention stuff funded by Sony like Unfinished Swan and thatgamecompany games.


Gamasutra has a good interview with Shuhei Yoshida about the "openness" of the PS4, they say they are trying to make it more open but you still need an SDK and devkit to develop for the console: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/187093/QA_What_does_Sonys_most_open_console_promise_mean.php#.USZWOFpes2c

ms has problems of its own, namely patching your game costs you 45,000$ after your first patch on xbla, but overall i've heard more horror stories from psn than from xbla

and you only mentioned a couple of games, some of which aren't even indie games (thatgamecompany, for instance, is a studio funded and owned by sony, it's not indie at all, it's a direct subsidiary of sony, jenova chen and so on are sony employees); i think you'll find if you do a larger count, xbla has far more indie games than psn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_Live_Arcade_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_downloadable_PlayStation_3_network_games

(for an easy count, arrange those by developer)

of course, xbla also has more games overall. but even as a % of total games, there appear to be a higher proportion of indie games on xbla as well. this is also ignoring xblig, which has a ton of indie games
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« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2013, 10:12:50 AM »

The dream of using computers instead of consoles for the living room isn't going to come true until computers are as easy to purchase and maintain as consoles. Consoles are appealing to average consumers who just want to plug in a box and play games. They are convenient.

A full-on computer is not only quite expensive, but not convenient in the slightest. For tech nerds such as I, that is half the appeal. I actually enjoy taking computers apart and tinkering with them. But I am definitely a fringe case, a small minority in a world full of people who are afraid of a computer's insides.

pc gaming is mainstream in most of europe and has been forever haha.
also russia, most of asia and south america and pretty much everywhere else in the world other than the US, the UK and japan.

also pc gaming is actually A LOT cheaper than consoles unless youre one of those people who HAS to play every new gam at max graphics settings.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »

Well...it was a bit of a sausage-fest up on that stage. There's no denying that. And it doesn't exactly reflect well on the gender diversity of the industry, that is true. It's entirely possible that none of the developers they were trotting out had any women on staff who could capably present. That is a more practical explanation, but it still doesn't speak well of the video game industry at large.

I would personally prefer that they provide capable speakers who are familiar with the subject matter. I think Sony did just that in their presentation. They trotted out real developers who knew what they were talking about. I would far prefer this approach than some transparent attempt to thrust a female presenter out on stage just to make themselves seem more diverse. (as we've seen at some other press conferences)

At the same time, it is a bit embarrassing for the game development industry when an event like this one has no high-profile ladies to represent.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2013, 10:21:24 AM »

I would personally prefer that they provide capable speakers who are familiar with the subject matter. I think Sony did just that in their presentation. They trotted out real developers who knew what they were talking about. I would far prefer this approach than some transparent attempt to thrust a female presenter out on stage just to make themselves seem more diverse. (as we've seen at some other press conferences)

i've heard things like this in the comments to that kotaku article, on facebook, etc., and i find it ridiculous -- is it *really* a choice between no female devs and token female devs? what about actual real female devs, of which there are many in the industry?

the industry has about 11% female employment. by that ratio, you'd have expected that 1 out of every 9 speakers be female. but they aren't even being represented by the already poor percent of females in the industry. 1 out of 9 wouldn't just be a token, it'd be representative of the females already in the industry

also, imagine this line of thought applied to other things. e.g. 'what's worse, not having any females in your fighting game, or having a token female character?' i think the token female is usually the better choice; for instance it's nice that street fighter 2 had chun-li instead of an all male cast, the series would have been poorer without her, and there are probably a lot of females who never would have played the game if they had been unable to play as a female character
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« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2013, 10:26:26 AM »


and you only mentioned a couple of games, some of which aren't even indie games (thatgamecompany, for instance, is a studio funded and owned by sony, it's not indie at all, it's a direct subsidiary of sony, jenova chen and so on are sony employees);


According to wikipedia they're an independent company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatgamecompany
They had a 3 games contract with Sony that just ended. Sony funded the development of Flow, Flower and Journey but that was it.

I don't feel confortable calling thatgamecompany indie since they were backed by Sony. But just to show that Sony is interested in helping small developers.

Anyway, Could you share with us some of the complains about PSN from developers?
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