Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1056227 Posts in 42892 Topics- by 34842 Members - Latest Member: smoofano

October 22, 2014, 06:20:13 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesPlaystation 4
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13
Print
Author Topic: Playstation 4  (Read 9430 times)
ClayB
Guest
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2013, 11:06:40 AM »

I definitely see what Paul means, I guess I'm just crossing my fingers here and hoping The Witness isn't one of the few indies Sony decides to let in the door for the ps4. I'm hoping Sony takes a cue from the success of XBLA and starts becoming more accommodating toward indies.

Still, as a gamer, I'm excited to play something like Fallout 4 and other titles on the ps4. Just nothing they showed really... ('cept for the witness).

Curious to see what the hell Microsoft does now.
Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2013, 11:08:21 AM »

Who gives a shit. Nobody would say a thing if only women were having presentations at the latest [insert brand with 90% female audience] conference.

Anyway, all the download and social stuff is cool, but it doesn't actually open new gameplay possibilities. Except maybe for the abillity to watch and drop in someone else's play session, but I don't see alot of games going any further than allowing someone to watch and take over the controls.
That never ever happen because you never ever have a all female presentations without some male ... heck even in 90% female market place, generally men ARE in spotlight (fashion for example). Also good female programmer never get the publicity of average male programmer (How many people are are familiar with Corinne Yu vs Carmack?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrinne_Yu
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
Richard Kain
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2013, 11:25:44 AM »

i've heard things like this in the comments to that kotaku article, on facebook, etc., and i find it ridiculous -- is it *really* a choice between no female devs and token female devs? what about actual real female devs, of which there are many in the industry?

the industry has about 11% female employment. by that ratio, you'd have expected that 1 out of every 9 speakers be female. but they aren't even being represented by the already poor percent of females in the industry. 1 out of 9 wouldn't just be a token, it'd be representative of the females already in the industry

A valid point, certainly. It was not my intention to give Sony a free pass on this one. This was clearly a failing on the part of Sony's PR department. With the clout they have with developers, it shouldn't have been a problem for them to encourage a few of them to bring some capable female developers along for the show. How hard would it have been for them to mention to Ubisoft that Jade Raymond would be a welcome addition?

Sony does deserve a portion of the blame for this faux pas. While I do appreciate that they didn't try to pass off a mouthpiece as female representation, they also dropped the ball pretty hard. And that failing is going to make things prickly for developers the world over for the immediate future. (at a time when it is critical for them to cater to the development community)
Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2013, 11:29:23 AM »

I also think some women don't want to be the next Jade Raymond, especially Jade Raymond ... remember what happen, you need more than one (token) to soften the blow.

I don't remember the last (any?) nintendo direct having more women too
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
ClayB
Guest
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2013, 11:32:28 AM »

ya sexism

That's what you get from an industry that is currently very narrow-minded in it's approach to curating THE BEST NEW GAMES *guitar riff* *montage* and pretty much everything else. Women aren't getting fair representation for their work in industry, and most peoples' tastes aren't getting represented in the actual games. It's a symptom of timid companies posturing for stockholders. If the next Sony conference has women, I might feel more insulted because I know exactly why Sony even asked them up on stage.   
Logged
AshfordPride
Guest
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2013, 11:34:14 AM »

If the next Sony conference has women, I might feel more insulted because I know exactly why Sony even asked them up on stage.   

A strange game.

The only winning move is not to play. 
Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2013, 11:36:04 AM »

If they have Chritian Dior you would be sure they are catering to a new audience. Durr...?
When male takes over a female brand market adapt itself (brony) just not the other way
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2013, 11:36:17 AM »


and you only mentioned a couple of games, some of which aren't even indie games (thatgamecompany, for instance, is a studio funded and owned by sony, it's not indie at all, it's a direct subsidiary of sony, jenova chen and so on are sony employees);


According to wikipedia they're an independent company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatgamecompany
They had a 3 games contract with Sony that just ended. Sony funded the development of Flow, Flower and Journey but that was it.

I don't feel confortable calling thatgamecompany indie since they were backed by Sony. But just to show that Sony is interested in helping small developers.

Anyway, Could you share with us some of the complains about PSN from developers?

ya, if they are independent but sony funds all their games and owns the IP rights to their games and gets most of the profits from their games then that isn't very independent; i'd say they're even less indie than valve, which wikipedia also classifies as an independent developer

and like i said i can't; those places have rules. if i mentioned any of the complaints i'd be kicked out. i already named one of the public complaints by edmund, i'm sure there are more public ones but since i heard most of them through a secret group i'm not sure which are public knowledge and which aren't. indies generally don't air their complaints against big companies publicly for fear of being blacklisted by them in future dealings

all i'm saying is that when the speaker said that ps4 will continue to be the console that supports indies the most, as ps3 already does, i couldn't help but be slack-jawed at how disconnected they are from the reality of it
Logged

C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2013, 11:46:23 AM »

also, imagine this line of thought applied to other things. e.g. 'what's worse, not having any females in your fighting game, or having a token female character?' i think the token female is usually the better choice; for instance it's nice that street fighter 2 had chun-li instead of an all male cast, the series would have been poorer without her, and there are probably a lot of females who never would have played the game if they had been unable to play as a female character
imo thats sort of a bad analogy because tokenism with fictional vidgam characters is different from tokenism with real people. i mean srsly, who wants to be "the girl" at an otherwise all-male press event?
Logged

ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2013, 11:49:48 AM »

i'm sure there were plenty of females who would have loved to be at that press event -- i mean, millions of people watching you, your name getting a little more famous, better sales for your game, what's not to like? any dev who makes games would love to have been in that conference, male or female
Logged

C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2013, 11:56:05 AM »

probably, but u were talking about tokenism which is "uh guys, i just noticed all our presenters are men, lets get one woman to speak at our event too so feminists dont complain"

what im trying to get at here is that being a token is humiliating
Logged

ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2013, 11:58:00 AM »

yes, but it's still important to remember that not everyone who is the only female in a group of males is really a token female, sometimes (usually so) they are far more competent than the average of the males in that group, because they had to be to get that spot
Logged

AshfordPride
Guest
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2013, 12:17:04 PM »

Like Jade Raymond.
Logged
Richard Kain
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2013, 12:19:32 PM »

probably, but u were talking about tokenism which is "uh guys, i just noticed all our presenters are men, lets get one woman to speak at our event too so feminists dont complain"

If you are a Public Relations professional, this is the sort of thing you get paid to think about. That is the sort of observation that such professionals are required to make.

And as Paul pointed out, there are options when it comes to female game developers. For my part, I am just fine with a "token" female coming out on stage as long as she clearly knows what she's talking about. The fact that she is female, or the fact that a company invited here to tick off a checklist doesn't bother me. Insincerity or incompetence are what I find grating. Show me a woman who is obviously familiar and comfortable with the subject matter she is presenting, and I will be happy as a clam.
Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2013, 12:26:10 PM »

Nintendo's Cammie Cunway  Durr...?
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
feminazi
Guest
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2013, 12:59:53 PM »

hey samtagonist u suck lol
Logged
feminazi
Guest
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2013, 01:03:57 PM »

Who gives a shit. Nobody would say a thing if only women were having presentations at the latest [insert brand with 90% female audience] conference.
thats da dumest thing ive ever heard
Logged
Tuba
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2013, 01:04:25 PM »

I don't see the problem with not having any women on stage, people are overreacting IMO.

I don't think Sony even thought about that, they just called some developers to talk about the stuff they were doing with the PS4, and by coincidence, none of them were women, simple like that.

There's no misogyny or sexism going on. Sadly, there's just more man than women in the industry.
Logged

Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2013, 01:12:17 PM »

For me it's less about sexism that the huge oversight, it's not about actively rejecting women but simply defaulting to male because you would never thought about women in the first place, and it's a vicious circle.

BTW
another problem was the place of an open market for indie (the so called minecraft test) looks like I misread sony's intention:

to give some context:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_test_how_to_tell_if_your_console_is/c8fcm4v
Quote
The problem is that moving to allow indies into consoles means ceding control over AAA publishers. Actually, most people aren't even aware of how much bullshit goes on in the console space because it's all under NDA. I mean, you know how people complain about how Steam is hard to get into because Greenlight sucks? Well people only complain because Valve actually lets them complain. By making Greenlight and admitting that their current submission system sucks they made the problems with getting games onto Steam very visible. When in reality even pre-Greenlight Steam was infinitely more approachable than Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony.
So typically if you want to write games for a Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony platform you have to buy development hardware. Normal devices do not accept development code; nor can they be updated to accept development code ala iOS. You need to buy a devkit. But wait: these devkits aren't actually available to the general public. In fact, they aren't even sold. They're fixed-fee rentals and they do expect the hardware back when you stop development games for the system.
So actually the first thing you do is not buy a devkit or download an SDK, the first thing you do is apply to become a licensed developer. In which case the console manufacturer will ask you for your address, your prior game development experience, and the balance of your bank account. And then they'll tell you that your address is wrong because it's not in commercially zoned secure office space because they don't trust you to keep the SDK a secret. So you get a commercial lease and then they tell you you don't have enough liquid capital reserves and not enough games on your belt. Most people would quit at this point, because commercial leases are already pretty expensive, but let's say you form a corporation, get a commercial lease, and release a bunch of iOS games that get enough sales that your target console manufacturer feels safe in licensing you.
Alright, so now you've addled yourself on iOS or Android game development, which means that you're used to working in, say, Unity if you bought a Pro license, or you use Android's Java or iOS's Objective-C. Or you thought ahead and wrote everything in C++. Fair enough. When you get your shiny new game console SDK, you open it up to see... a whole bunch of random low-level libraries for dealing with something called "gx2" or "gcm" or whatever, a bunch of other random headers... the C++ compiler and, wait a second, who the hell is still using fucking Metroworks?! Where the fuck is OpenGL?! What do you mean Unity/Flash/etc doesn't support this platform!?
Well, no, there is no OpenGL or any graphics API for that matter, it's all some stupid low-level hardware API that you have to tickle to get any 3D rendering to work. And it turns out people still use Metroworks because they were the first to have a working PowerPC compiler, they're owned by Freescale, and 8 years ago they had better compilers for PPC around the time that the rest of the console industry decided to use that architecture. So everyone gets stuck with a shitty compiler that chokes on exceptions and doesn't get fixed because nobody uses exceptions because the compiler chokes on them. (Except Microsoft, I believe they ship the Visual C compiler in their SDKs, which is decent as far as they go.)
So let's say you get over your initial API shock, you have a decent handle on what all the little libraries do, and you wanna buy some development hardware now. Well, uh, okay. That'll be anywhere from $2,600 (leaked 3DS devkit figures) to $10,000 or more (leaked Xbox 360/PS3 devkit figures). You buy a devkit, of course, because you pretty much have to anyway no matter how substantial a cost it is.
You now have a decent port of one of your iOS games, and you would expect that you could just send it to the manufacturer and get it published right? Well, no, it turns out that they have the same stupid certification process Apple does, except ten times as bureaucratic. Your game has a UI element at the edge of the title-safe area and it gets cut off on a 40 year old CRT NTSC monitor? FAILED CERTIFICATION! Your game didn't show the stupid "don't pull out the memory unit" autosave icon somewhere in level 3? FAILED CERTIFICATION! and so on.
Finally, you get through all the bullshit, and you get a certified build. So you think you can just release it for sale now right? No, because your console manufacturer only releases one or two downloadable games a week on the same day every week. And they allocate the 100-odd possible release slots among the physical publishers, and oh wait, you don't have a publisher? Well, we're going to allocate you stuff from our first-party game studio's slots, which is where every other indie developer gets to pull from. And it turns out that you just missed a slot that was available two weeks ago, but they can totally get you a release three months from now.
So you finally release your game and it's in the middle of August where nobody wants to buy games anyway or you're releasing against something big which wouldn't have been a problem if Microsoft just let you pick your own release date. Your game tanks, but it doesn't matter anyway because you already are halfway through porting the next of your iOS games anyway.
And then Valve calls you up and asks if you could release your game on Steam. You muck together a cheap PC port from your console code (as it now has more features than your original iOS version) and hand it to them. The game sells much better than on consoles, you get to add more content, and all you have to deal with is TotalBiscuit complaining that your game doesn't have FOV sliders.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_test_how_to_tell_if_your_console_is/

This is a problem with the increased focus on close curated platform making discovery or fringe idea difficult to create.

To contrast a failed experiment:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ThomasSteinke/20130202/185921/What_went_wrong_with_XNAXBLIG.php

EDIT:
Another things


edit2:
With all these standardize harware (x86) it would be easy to port unity ready game to all gen4 consoles. If they open the door the flood is ready.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:21:10 PM by Gimym TILBERT » Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2013, 01:28:39 PM »

yep, most of the above quote i've heard of. another thing it left out is, according to what i've heard, that you need to pay for your own certification process. every time it fails certification you need to pay a few thousands or tens of thousands more dollars for another attempt

and yet people blame developers when their game isn't on consoles; i've seen tons of posts calling edmund and tommy idiots for not porting super meat boy to sony, and saying that indies are stupid to not take advantage of consoles, as if it's the easiest thing in the world and the only thing keeping indie games from the consoles is developers being too stupid to think of putting their games on consoles (even in this very thread there was some of that, when one person was like 'it's not hard, all you need is a bug free polished game!')
Logged

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic