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August 29, 2014, 12:01:58 AM
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feminazi
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« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2013, 12:59:53 PM »

hey samtagonist u suck lol
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feminazi
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« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2013, 01:03:57 PM »

Who gives a shit. Nobody would say a thing if only women were having presentations at the latest [insert brand with 90% female audience] conference.
thats da dumest thing ive ever heard
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« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2013, 01:04:25 PM »

I don't see the problem with not having any women on stage, people are overreacting IMO.

I don't think Sony even thought about that, they just called some developers to talk about the stuff they were doing with the PS4, and by coincidence, none of them were women, simple like that.

There's no misogyny or sexism going on. Sadly, there's just more man than women in the industry.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2013, 01:12:17 PM »

For me it's less about sexism that the huge oversight, it's not about actively rejecting women but simply defaulting to male because you would never thought about women in the first place, and it's a vicious circle.

BTW
another problem was the place of an open market for indie (the so called minecraft test) looks like I misread sony's intention:

to give some context:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_test_how_to_tell_if_your_console_is/c8fcm4v
Quote
The problem is that moving to allow indies into consoles means ceding control over AAA publishers. Actually, most people aren't even aware of how much bullshit goes on in the console space because it's all under NDA. I mean, you know how people complain about how Steam is hard to get into because Greenlight sucks? Well people only complain because Valve actually lets them complain. By making Greenlight and admitting that their current submission system sucks they made the problems with getting games onto Steam very visible. When in reality even pre-Greenlight Steam was infinitely more approachable than Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony.
So typically if you want to write games for a Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony platform you have to buy development hardware. Normal devices do not accept development code; nor can they be updated to accept development code ala iOS. You need to buy a devkit. But wait: these devkits aren't actually available to the general public. In fact, they aren't even sold. They're fixed-fee rentals and they do expect the hardware back when you stop development games for the system.
So actually the first thing you do is not buy a devkit or download an SDK, the first thing you do is apply to become a licensed developer. In which case the console manufacturer will ask you for your address, your prior game development experience, and the balance of your bank account. And then they'll tell you that your address is wrong because it's not in commercially zoned secure office space because they don't trust you to keep the SDK a secret. So you get a commercial lease and then they tell you you don't have enough liquid capital reserves and not enough games on your belt. Most people would quit at this point, because commercial leases are already pretty expensive, but let's say you form a corporation, get a commercial lease, and release a bunch of iOS games that get enough sales that your target console manufacturer feels safe in licensing you.
Alright, so now you've addled yourself on iOS or Android game development, which means that you're used to working in, say, Unity if you bought a Pro license, or you use Android's Java or iOS's Objective-C. Or you thought ahead and wrote everything in C++. Fair enough. When you get your shiny new game console SDK, you open it up to see... a whole bunch of random low-level libraries for dealing with something called "gx2" or "gcm" or whatever, a bunch of other random headers... the C++ compiler and, wait a second, who the hell is still using fucking Metroworks?! Where the fuck is OpenGL?! What do you mean Unity/Flash/etc doesn't support this platform!?
Well, no, there is no OpenGL or any graphics API for that matter, it's all some stupid low-level hardware API that you have to tickle to get any 3D rendering to work. And it turns out people still use Metroworks because they were the first to have a working PowerPC compiler, they're owned by Freescale, and 8 years ago they had better compilers for PPC around the time that the rest of the console industry decided to use that architecture. So everyone gets stuck with a shitty compiler that chokes on exceptions and doesn't get fixed because nobody uses exceptions because the compiler chokes on them. (Except Microsoft, I believe they ship the Visual C compiler in their SDKs, which is decent as far as they go.)
So let's say you get over your initial API shock, you have a decent handle on what all the little libraries do, and you wanna buy some development hardware now. Well, uh, okay. That'll be anywhere from $2,600 (leaked 3DS devkit figures) to $10,000 or more (leaked Xbox 360/PS3 devkit figures). You buy a devkit, of course, because you pretty much have to anyway no matter how substantial a cost it is.
You now have a decent port of one of your iOS games, and you would expect that you could just send it to the manufacturer and get it published right? Well, no, it turns out that they have the same stupid certification process Apple does, except ten times as bureaucratic. Your game has a UI element at the edge of the title-safe area and it gets cut off on a 40 year old CRT NTSC monitor? FAILED CERTIFICATION! Your game didn't show the stupid "don't pull out the memory unit" autosave icon somewhere in level 3? FAILED CERTIFICATION! and so on.
Finally, you get through all the bullshit, and you get a certified build. So you think you can just release it for sale now right? No, because your console manufacturer only releases one or two downloadable games a week on the same day every week. And they allocate the 100-odd possible release slots among the physical publishers, and oh wait, you don't have a publisher? Well, we're going to allocate you stuff from our first-party game studio's slots, which is where every other indie developer gets to pull from. And it turns out that you just missed a slot that was available two weeks ago, but they can totally get you a release three months from now.
So you finally release your game and it's in the middle of August where nobody wants to buy games anyway or you're releasing against something big which wouldn't have been a problem if Microsoft just let you pick your own release date. Your game tanks, but it doesn't matter anyway because you already are halfway through porting the next of your iOS games anyway.
And then Valve calls you up and asks if you could release your game on Steam. You muck together a cheap PC port from your console code (as it now has more features than your original iOS version) and hand it to them. The game sells much better than on consoles, you get to add more content, and all you have to deal with is TotalBiscuit complaining that your game doesn't have FOV sliders.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_test_how_to_tell_if_your_console_is/

This is a problem with the increased focus on close curated platform making discovery or fringe idea difficult to create.

To contrast a failed experiment:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ThomasSteinke/20130202/185921/What_went_wrong_with_XNAXBLIG.php

EDIT:
Another things


edit2:
With all these standardize harware (x86) it would be easy to port unity ready game to all gen4 consoles. If they open the door the flood is ready.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:21:10 PM by Gimym TILBERT » Logged


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« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2013, 01:28:39 PM »

yep, most of the above quote i've heard of. another thing it left out is, according to what i've heard, that you need to pay for your own certification process. every time it fails certification you need to pay a few thousands or tens of thousands more dollars for another attempt

and yet people blame developers when their game isn't on consoles; i've seen tons of posts calling edmund and tommy idiots for not porting super meat boy to sony, and saying that indies are stupid to not take advantage of consoles, as if it's the easiest thing in the world and the only thing keeping indie games from the consoles is developers being too stupid to think of putting their games on consoles (even in this very thread there was some of that, when one person was like 'it's not hard, all you need is a bug free polished game!')
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feminazi
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« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2013, 01:36:21 PM »

I don't see the problem with not having any women on stage, people are overreacting IMO.

I don't think Sony even thought about that, they just called some developers to talk about the stuff they were doing with the PS4, and by coincidence, none of them were women, simple like that.

There's no misogyny or sexism going on. Sadly, there's just more man than women in the industry.

the only overreaction is dudes getting mad about when it's pointed out: see you and kotaku comments.
--
and men should be conscious of it. (call this demanding or feminazism or wahetever, fuck off) i and many others notice it all the time, when video game vidoc trailers show only men or when male speakers constantly say he or his or him or whatever referring to the player. guess what, it is sexist(boo-hoo cry me a cisprivlgedge samtagonist) regardless of intention. idk how men (see wat im doing there) just completely forget and we constantly have to forgive them because we have to believe that they're seriously that stupid. i guess they are that stupid though, that's why you get those idiotic comments from the boys at gearbox and epic.
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poe
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« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2013, 01:47:39 PM »

If the next Sony conference has women, I might feel more insulted because I know exactly why Sony even asked them up on stage.   

A strange game.

The only winning move is not to play. 
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #82 on: February 21, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4_6

for the tech addict
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feminazi
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« Reply #83 on: February 21, 2013, 02:02:07 PM »

http://kazhiraiceo.tumblr.com/
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« Reply #84 on: February 21, 2013, 02:21:14 PM »

Oh dear lord http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/02/21/why-david-cage-will-help-sony-sell-playstation-4-hardware-and-create-the-citizen-kane-of-gaming/  Facepalm
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feminazi
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« Reply #85 on: February 21, 2013, 02:22:36 PM »

im glad david cage wants to push the medium and not make a match 3
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2013, 02:38:53 PM »

So we can look at this two ways.  Either the choice to have all men presenting was a conscious one on Sony's part, or it wasn't.  I think this is important to know before we attack this issue.  I'd like to err on the side of happenstance, that all this was the fault of someone just making calls and getting people who were available and things just sort of fell where they did.  In the case that we didn't, then this is all targeted and intended.  It's done because these billion-dollar companies hire hundreds of people to wind folks into tight bundles of demos and find out what they need to show them to make them fork over a few hundred dollars on a luxury item.  It's sales, not sexism.

Do you think I'm happy?  Let's strip me of my orientation, skin color, and gender for a second here (All of which I've never confirmed~) and just boil me down to my tastes as a gamer.  Do you REALLY think I'm happy, the fat baby of a gamer who is the hardest of cores, is happy that there is a SHARE button on a major consoles controller?  That the biggest development of Sony's leap to nextgen seems to be reverse engineering a shittier version of Steam's UI?  Am I just over the moon that social gaming seems to be the thing that's going to move this console?  No!  No I am not!  Eva, how deluded do you have to be to think that this industry EVER caters to ME in ways that matter.  I am so far flung from what these companies want that I think I may be less desirable than any brand of female demographic.  Do you think any game company wants the 'over educated about our products, incredibly finicky, and willing to wait until a game is on sale months after our games are released demographic'?  Gosh, you know what sort of people all this stuff that the PS4 has seems to be aimed at?  WOMEN.  It's all for you guys!  All this social stuff is going out to you!  The straight white male gamer doesn't give a shit about Facebook stuff.  It's all going out to the coveted pansexual woman of color demographic.  So don't tell me that because there aren't any women up there that you are being left out in the cold.  These presentations are a fucking funeral procession to people like me, and then, poor you, you have to deal with the fact that nobody up there looks like you.  Here's a red hot tip, I don't identify with a forty-something Japanese millionaire who wants me to share the fact that I'm stuck on a level of Killzone 4 anymore than you do.  

I'M THE REAL VICTIM HERE, AND I SHOULD BE PITCHING THE BIGGEST FIT.  (Also, if this was feminist bingo, being told by the people you're criticizing that they're the actual victims would be the free space.  Seriously eva, if we ever do play feminist bingo you're just going to be running up to the front of the auditorium every time to claim your iTunes giftcard.  You're going to make a lot of seniors mad here, lots of grumblings through false teeth that the whole thing is rigged.  I forgot the point I was making?) But I won't, because I'm totally cool with the realities of a billion dollar industry going after the greatest common denominator.  With a shrug and a sigh, I will happily gobble up the scraps I get and turn my eyes backwards to times where things were better for my kind.  We are a proud people, eva.  A noble people.  We use every part of the video game.

//// WARNING ////
THREAD RUINED EVERYONE OUT
//// WARNING ////
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2013, 02:41:42 PM »


On the openness of the ps4

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/187093/Qamp_A_What_does_Sonys_most_open_console_promise_mean.php

Quote
Let me ask another way, then. I understand that the PS4 is accessible from a development standpoint -- once you are a licensed PlayStation developer. What I'm wondering is if Sony is lifting any restrictions, perhaps? Or making it easier for a smaller developer to get onto the PlayStation 4 than it was for the PlayStation 3?

Yeah, that we really want to do. We believe in smaller developers. They are very creative and they go out of the norm to do something really amazing. So we really want to make it easier for them to come to our platform and publish. And we know there are many things we can do, in talking with these guys and asking what they want us to do.

And one effort we've been doing in that context is the PS Mobile platform. That doesn't even require the purchase of a dev kit. It's totally software driven, and they can develop games… on PC, for example. And once you decide to publish it, you want to test it on the final hardware, but you don't have to acquire a pricey dev kit.

The approach to PS4 we're internally working on is, I hope to see somewhere in-between the current model that we have on PS3 and the PS Mobile totally software-driven model. We could continue and go and expand the PS Mobile approach, but the beauty of developing games on console is we allow the developers to go really deep into the hardware, and to unlock the potential. And so in order for us to do that, the developer has to have the dev kit to work on. So at least initially, we have to provide the dev kit to make games on PS4.

I just want to make sure I understand what you said, you said your vision for you want to go with that program is somewhere between PS Mobile's open accessibility and the PS3's closed gates, somewhere in-between?

Yeah, that's our direction.

Does the PS4's PC-like architecture mean that dev kits might be easier to manufacture, and might be less expensive this time around? Could they be going out to more developers than in the past?

We usually don't talk about the pricing of the dev kit. But yeah, I'd say it can be cheaper. But I don't know if it's cheap enough for those indie guys. Because it's not just the cost of hardware, it's also the SDKs and tool chains and dev support and all those costs.

So I guess what I'm hearing is that you recognize that you need these smaller guys to be on PlayStation, and you're trying to sort out still how to get these tools in their hands?

I'm saying we want them to be on our platform. You said we need, but it's more like we want.

One big feature being pushed at last night's presentation is a more organic means of content discoverability for users, relying more on their histories and their friends than on what Sony chooses to promote. Does this open the door to distributing more games than you have in the past, now that a lot of that virtual shelf space has been freed up?

Absolutely, yes. We love having lots of different kinds of content. It's hard to find the right content for particular users, so we want to make a service so that we know their preference and we'll be able to prioritize what we push forward to particular customers when they open the software. So we are trying to serve as much information that we think they like onto the system menu.

Sure, but because that discoverability is more natural now, does that mean that Sony might be more open to distributing some games that they wouldn't have before? Maybe titles that are more obscure or niche or weird can be on PlayStation, now that Sony doesn't have to worry about how to display and curate them?

As far as the self-publishing is concerned, I think we already have a pretty open stance to get many different kinds of content…

Through PS Mobile or in general?

I think it's just another degree. I don't understand what level of "weirdness" you're talking about. But in a general sense, the answer is yes, we'd like to make it so that lots of different kinds of content are published on the system and still be able to reach the right kind of audience for that particular content, even if that content is pretty niche.

These last two console launches have been performing below expectations, Sony has come out and said that the Vita is selling below expectations, and the Wii U's January performance [in the U.S.] was a record low for any currently available systems…

…did we say that?

Yes, actually. I don't have the exact quote, but it was insinuated along with the price cut in Japan that the Vita was underperforming.

No no no, he didn't say it- [Yes, he did. - Ed.]

Look like the so called open platform not so open at all
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2013, 02:45:13 PM »

@samtagonist
Failed, they are chasing the bungie and cod bro who spend time on ustream and youtube shitkill apology
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2013, 02:49:01 PM »

So we can look at this two ways.  Either the choice to have all men presenting was a conscious one on Sony's part, or it wasn't.  I think this is important to know before we attack this issue.  I'd like to err on the side of happenstance, that all this was the fault of someone just making calls and getting people who were available and things just sort of fell where they did.  In the case that we didn't, then this is all targeted and intended.  It's done because these billion-dollar companies hire hundreds of people to wind folks into tight bundles of demos and find out what they need to show them to make them fork over a few hundred dollars on a luxury item.  It's sales, not sexism.

Do you think I'm happy?  Let's strip me of my orientation, skin color, and gender for a second here (All of which I've never confirmed~) and just boil me down to my tastes as a gamer.  Do you REALLY think I'm happy, the fat baby of a gamer who is the hardest of cores, is happy that there is a SHARE button on a major consoles controller?  That the biggest development of Sony's leap to nextgen seems to be reverse engineering a shittier version of Steam's UI?  Am I just over the moon that social gaming seems to be the thing that's going to move this console?  No!  No I am not!  Eva, how deluded do you have to be to think that this industry EVER caters to ME in ways that matter.  I am so far flung from what these companies want that I think I may be less desirable than any brand of female demographic.  Do you think any game company wants the 'over educated about our products, incredibly finicky, and willing to wait until a game is on sale months after our games are released demographic'?  Gosh, you know what sort of people all this stuff that the PS4 has seems to be aimed at?  WOMEN.  It's all for you guys!  All this social stuff is going out to you!  The straight white male gamer doesn't give a shit about Facebook stuff.  It's all going out to the coveted pansexual woman of color demographic.  So don't tell me that because there aren't any women up there that you are being left out in the cold.  These presentations are a fucking funeral procession to people like me, and then, poor you, you have to deal with the fact that nobody up there looks like you.  Here's a red hot tip, I don't identify with a forty-something Japanese millionaire who wants me to share the fact that I'm stuck on a level of Killzone 4 anymore than you do.  

I'M THE REAL VICTIM HERE, AND I SHOULD BE PITCHING THE BIGGEST FIT.  (Also, if this was feminist bingo, being told by the people you're criticizing that they're the actual victims would be the free space.  Seriously eva, if we ever do play feminist bingo you're just going to be running up to the front of the auditorium every time to claim your iTunes giftcard.  You're going to make a lot of seniors mad here, lots of grumblings through false teeth that the whole thing is rigged.  I forgot the point I was making?) But I won't, because I'm totally cool with the realities of a billion dollar industry going after the greatest common denominator.  With a shrug and a sigh, I will happily gobble up the scraps I get and turn my eyes backwards to times where things were better for my kind.  We are a proud people, eva.  A noble people.  We use every part of the video game.

//// WARNING ////
THREAD RUINED EVERYONE OUT
//// WARNING ////

LOLOLOLOLLOLOOLLOPLP;OOLOLLOLOOLOLLOLOOLLOPLOOLOLOLLOLLOLKLOKOLOL
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