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[Gimym TILBERT]

The animation issue is more a problem of scale, 50h of detail animation gotta leave some trace. And some "trick" is more likely to either meet resistance from experience animator or fall flat with beginner animator. Automation is slowly gettin there too, but got damn it, somedays someone will figure out that "eye focus pattern movement" is a thing when automating gaze, and that take some emotion as parameter, just that would increase things ten times. I want to go there with less expensive graphics but hey learning to program simple game first

[C.A. Sinner]

It was my privilege.

dude have u noticed that u r the only person talking about this shit in the entire thread

[Mipe]

Animation is no longer just a bunch of sequentially displayed images, however. 3D meshes can be manipulated for little to no effort (in terms of performance, of course).

Take Skyrim for an example. At first it felt wooden, then modders got their grubby hands on the development kit and released numerous detailed animations, from smooth combat animations to dances and even sex scenes. All it took was skeleton modifications.

It just takes time and effort. Somebody has to pull a few all-nighters to make the character model smile, wink and laugh more realistically. In the eyes of corporate interests, that is a lot of valuable time for little bang, so they tend to discard this possibility.

If games weren't limited by budget... Can you imagine the possibilities?

[Gimym TILBERT]

Did you work on such a game? I did, I can tell you that on the scale of a project dev it's costly. Where do you think all those complaint about QOL came from? Never heard of crunch time? + every tech and gameplay decision generally mean a huge batch of rework.

It's great we have motion capture, retargeting, 3D mesh, blending, animation solver, curve, generic bone setup, morph target, to share animation ... even that is not enough to massage the volume, especially at the quality expected for modern game.

EDIT: OUPS SORRY!
yeah time is what is needed + consistent style across animator + stable pipeline + strong director with a solid direction

EDIT2:
Totally feasible on an indie level if we lower expectation and "quality" (think a style that meet expectation). If you do a retro looking game with non realistic graphics set in a cartoony but expressive robot world ... you can

[Tuba]

WiiU has Miiverse, PS4 has a share button... IT'S THE SOCIAL GENERATION!

Finally, Farmville can be ported to consoles!


I'm afraid of what Microsoft is up to

[Gimym TILBERT]

Look legit because, small environment and totally on target with the tech, fluid dynamics expected to be the next bloom

WiiU has Miiverse, PS4 has a share button... IT'S THE SOCIAL GENERATION!

Finally, Farmville can be ported to consoles!


I'm afraid of what Microsoft is up to

yay xboxlive .... was there before everybody

[siskavard]

I don't really give a shit about how realistic the face though.

I do, considering the amount of games trying to be realistic this generation and FAILING. People are gonna look back at the character models on the ps3 and roflcopter, maybe even lollerskate.

..but who cares what these companies are trying to do? Is is necessary? How much does 200,000,000 polygons add to the experience? If they can nail it, and make their characters NOT look like puppet corpses, then GREAT! Now go one further, and make that part of great gameplay... I hardly ever see that happening.

[SirNiko]

Why are people giving Sam a hard time for his posts in this thread? If they rub you the wrong way, ignore them. They're on topic and he's posing them in an even tone. If all posters could manage that this forum would be a far better place for it.

I was skeptical of the WiiU's social media thingies. Mostly they're stupid (post a poem about how you beat that last level in MarioU!) and invite a lot of poorly worded responses from players who write things like "Wow didn't think i'd get that last jump", but there's this whole group of players who seem to not even play the game and just spend all day drawing pictures on the tablet. It's worth it for getting a couple of really great pieces of art to show up between levels, which usually happens two or three times during a few hours of play.

I'm not sure about the PS4. I don't feel like trading up yet, since I still have a bunch of PS3 games to play (In fact, I'm still buying and playing PS2 games). I'm playing Dragon Quest 8, and I'm really impressed at how they managed to make the world feel expansive with new sights peeking over horizons and mountaintops in a nearly seamless world. And that's just with the PS2. I do wish more effort would be put on stylish games with clever art direction and less effort into making models extremely detailed when you're never going to look at them that closely.

Also, I like the idea of making the Vita and PS4 interchangeable with regards to exclusives. I'm probably weird for it, but I don't actually take my handheld out of the house with me except on rare occasions. I just own a DS to play DS exclusive games. The knowledge I could skip the Vita and get the same selection of games with just a PS4 would be extremely appealing.

Unless the launch lineup is thrilling, I'll wait on a PS4.

[Samtagonist]

I was skeptical of the WiiU's social media thingies. Mostly they're stupid (post a poem about how you beat that last level in MarioU!) and invite a lot of poorly worded responses from players who write things like "Wow didn't think i'd get that last jump", but there's this whole group of players who seem to not even play the game and just spend all day drawing pictures on the tablet. It's worth it for getting a couple of really great pieces of art to show up between levels, which usually happens two or three times during a few hours of play.

I think there's some magic when creating a social bubble around your game or console that most people just can't seem to get.  Most of the time it just stinks of market researchers telling people with fauxhawks to make tying your account to their account an achievement.  I get a laugh EVERY TIME I stop playing DK Crash Course thanks to some stranger on the Miiverse.  Someone has always drawn something or said something about this game in that little bubble that has gotten a chuckle out of me.  It's the uncreative types that want to reduce something like that to UPLOAD YOUR LAST TIME PLAYING DK CRASH COURSE TO YOUTUBE FOR NOBODY TO EVER SEE.  I just makes me bummed to look at a video of myself that Valve seemed really hype for me to make to then only get four views.  I mean, it's not gold obviously, but it was kind of a special moment for me that's just sort of gathering dust now...

It sort of reminds me of Dark Souls mixed with Doodle or Die.  All these limitations are kind of endearing.  It's this soulless junk I want to move away from.  

[Gimym TILBERT]

I can tell you that, in a game like DQ8 that don't need global illum, smart particle and fluid effect, you will be blow away.

Most NPR vanilla techniques does not cost a lot for amzing result, those shader and ram therefore can be put to amzing use. On my netbook eee asus with shader 2, I was able to replicate technically the artwork from skyward sword PR material (not the ingame render, the hand made water painting), I could do much better with barely more power (shader 3, unity pro and defered rendering). Imagine what it could be on ps4 with 8Go ram and gpgpu? sky the limit!

It's totally possible that with the WiiU, nintendo pull it for his brand and totally make comparison non sense. Plus they enough power to have smooth curve in 3D!

[_e_va]

Why are people giving Sam a hard time for his posts in this thread? If they rub you the wrong way, ignore them. They're on topic and he's posing them in an even tone. If all posters could manage that this forum would be a far better place for it.

lol

[Tuba]

Miiverse is a social network with a Nintendo twist. Not something complex and full of features like what Sony is showing, but "fun" and full of little quirks. I mean.. look at this: http://themiiverse.com/

Also, they just added custom groups and stuff like an "oficial Zelda group", and Aonuma showed up there to announce that the Oracle games would be released in America: http://kotaku.com/5986002/zelda-oracle-of-seasons-and-ages-are-coming-to-3ds-virtual-console-outside-of-japan-eventually

It really reflects what both companies philosophies are IMO.

As for Xbox Live... it's not really a social network. The one in the next Xbox will certainly be one, judging by what the competition is doing.


I really like the idea of recording yourself playing and sharing it online, a long time ago I was thinking about alternatives to achievements and thought that it would be cool if instead of giving you fixed achievements, you could record something awesome that you did and that you consider an achievement, share it online and let people vote and decide if you should get a trophy for that (or gamerpoints or whatever). I hope something like that is implemented on the PS4.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Social network is not reduce to facebooks format!

[Samtagonist]

I really like the idea of recording yourself playing and sharing it online, a long time ago I was thinking about alternatives to achievements and thought that it would be cool if instead of giving you fixed achievements, you could record something awesome that you did and that you consider an achievement, share it online and let people vote and decide if you should get a trophy for that (or gamerpoints or whatever). I hope something like that is implemented on the PS4.

It was always my thinking that we'd see something like this on Steam.  It seems to have the groundwork all set up for it, doesn't it?  I remember the whole reason their service doesn't assign points or tiers to their achievements is because they had mods in mind, and didn't want people getting a hyper-inflated score from some goof who made an achievement in his mod worth a million points.  Like, how hard would it be to make a sort of Madlibs of things to pop custom achievements?  You know, do X while Y or stuff like that. 

[_e_va]

alright sam. i'm done lol-ing at your dumness so listen up donkey kong

So we can look at this two ways.  Either the choice to have all men presenting was a conscious one on Sony's part, or it wasn't.  I think this is important to know before we attack this issue.  I'd like to err on the side of happenstance, that all this was the fault of someone just making calls and getting people who were available and things just sort of fell where they did.  In the case that we didn't, then this is all targeted and intended.  It's done because these billion-dollar companies hire hundreds of people to wind folks into tight bundles of demos and find out what they need to show them to make them fork over a few hundred dollars on a luxury item.  It's sales, not sexism.

if sony intended to (hypothetically) exclude women from the conference, it's sexist by definition. you don't decide what is and isn't sexism just because you think it is or isn't a big deal to you. it does not excuse arbitrary targeted marketing (which, if you should know if you even followed our discussion last time, i believe to be complete bullshit)

Do you think I'm happy?  Let's strip me of my orientation, skin color, and gender for a second here (All of which I've never confirmed~) and just boil me down to my tastes as a gamer.

even if we stripped you of your identity (you identify as an 18-24 year old male.), i'm already aware of your perspective from our last discussion. you are offended from anything related to feminism entering "your hobby." also hold that thought about your tastes for a minute.

Do you REALLY think I'm happy, the fat baby of a gamer who is the hardest of cores, is happy that there is a SHARE button on a major consoles controller?  That the biggest development of Sony's leap to nextgen seems to be reverse engineering a shittier version of Steam's UI?  Am I just over the moon that social gaming seems to be the thing that's going to move this console?  No!  No I am not! Eva, how deluded do you have to be to think that this industry EVER caters to ME in ways that matter. I am so far flung from what these companies want that I think I may be less desirable than any brand of female demographic.

shut the fuck up little baby. how deluded do you have to be to think that this industry doesn't "EVER" cater to the male demographic? oh wait you mean YOU specifically lololloll. no one's ever argued that. because that would be insane, you STUPID FUCK. YEAH THESE COMPANIES MUST BE TARGETING THE ENTIRE FEMALE DEMOGRAPHIC MORE THAN THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL WITH "TASTES." guess what, the female demographic is individualistic too! these companies don't even pretend we exist, you're fucking deluded. typical MRM retard supreme.

 Do you think any game company wants the 'over educated about our products, incredibly finicky, and willing to wait until a game is on sale months after our games are released demographic'?  Gosh, you know what sort of people all this stuff that the PS4 has seems to be aimed at?  WOMEN.  It's all for you guys!  All this social stuff is going out to you!  The straight white male gamer doesn't give a shit about Facebook stuff.  It's all going out to the coveted pansexual woman of color demographic.

YOURE AN INDIVIDUAL WITH OPINIONS AND PERSONALIZED TASTE BUT I MUST LOVE FACEBOOK STUFF BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN AND OF COLOR. HOLY FUCKING SHIT. MRM RETARD SUPREME

So don't tell me that because there aren't any women up there that you are being left out in the cold.  These presentations are a fucking funeral procession to people like me, and then, poor you, you have to deal with the fact that nobody up there looks like you. Here's a red hot tip, I don't identify with a forty-something Japanese millionaire who wants me to share the fact that I'm stuck on a level of Killzone 4 anymore than you do.  

YEAH BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I CARE ABOUT AND APPARENTLY I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PLAYSTATION 4 FEATURES THAT I TUNED IN FOR BECAUSE I'M NOT "PEOPLE LIKE YOU."

I CARE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES, PERHAPS MORE THAN YOU, AND MY DUM FRIENDS CAN ATTEST TO THAT. AND SHOCKINGLY I'M NOT "PEOPLE LIKE YOU."
So how about YOU shut the fuck up and quit crying, and leave MY hobby alone.