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November 22, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesPlaystation 4
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skaldicpoet9
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« on: February 23, 2013, 09:37:02 AM »

Well, since the old thread crashed and burned I figured we could use a new place to actually discuss the PS4. Not that it needs to be said (or does it) but please keep the conversation on the topic of the PS4 guys.

To get back onto discussion: how do you think that the difference in hardware specs will effect the Wii U's potential for multiplat releases?

I was surprised to see that Sony actually went with 8GB of RAM(was expecting 3-4 at the most to be honest) which I would imagine is going to create a bit of a dilemma for developers on the Wii U should they choose to port.

I am not incredibly knowledgeable about tech specs and the potential workarounds that developers could employ, but I feel like the Wii U might be in trouble later on this generation and succumb to a similar fate as the Wii with a drought of actual third-party ports.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 01:39:18 AM by Dragonmaw » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 09:39:43 AM »

I always feel like the controller is the biggest issue, but I don't know much about porting across consoles.

Whatever the situation is the Wii U must support multiplat better than the Wii, right? Don't know.
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 10:00:55 AM »

Also, I am really interested in mobile interaction. You have a screen in your hands and the tv/console in front of you. Microsoft has "glass" or whatever. Smartphones will definitely start to interact, though through the web (not direct). And the Wii U has its gamepad.

The Wii was family oriented. The Wii U has a dedicated hand screen. That's the most exciting part of the system for me, as a developer. I just feel real nice about it. Seeing Link's inventory on it in some vid gave me goosebumps.

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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 10:18:20 AM »

The Wii U is perfectly positioned to be the go-to console for local multiplayer. Everything about it seems to have been designed with that purpose in mind, and I can attest from experience that it is excellent in that capacity. That is a niche that it will most likely be able to hang onto, even if the PS3, 360, PS4, and Durango beat it out in other areas. Of course, that is tacitly admitting that it the Wii U isn't going to be trouncing any of the competition in the near future, but that's just the way things seem to be shaking out.

The PS4 has plenty of potential. The possible last-minute decision to up the RAM in the system to 8 GIGs is going to make a lot of potential developers very happy. It's the one thing they are always clamoring for more of when developing for consoles. Several other architecture decisions of the PS4 are also targeted at developers. The constant-on feature is going to be huge for developers, and will free them up to make as many updates to their software as they please without interrupting the end-user experience. The choice of processor is also an obvious olive branch, cross-platform porting for the PS4 will be much easier this time around. This could result in fewer exclusive titles, but it will also mean that the performance of the PS4 versions won't be hamstrung.

The changes to the controller are nice. The alteration to the tops of the analog sticks will be popular. One of my biggest complaints for the PS3 was the continued use of domed analog sticks. Having an indentation in the middle will make them much easier to manipulate. I could have done with a shift in the position, though. Shifting my thumbs downwards on Sony's controllers has always bothered me. I honestly prefer the Wii U's approach to this better than anyone else's. But the same approach wouldn't work with the general structure of the Dualshock line.

Sony's done a good job so far of focusing on garnering developer support. While a lot of end-users might not be as impressed with what has been displayed, this was a clear appeal to the development community. And games will always be what sells systems. With the direction they're taking, it's clear that Sony understands that now.

Of course, the Durango is still a big fat question mark, and no hardware exists in a vacuum. The strong focus on game development and end-user experience will serve the PS4 well against the Wii U and the last-gen systems. But Microsoft still has a chance to wow everyone with the next XBox. I am slightly concerned that they made the wrong decision with Halo 4.
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skaldicpoet9
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 10:22:15 AM »

I always feel like the controller is the biggest issue, but I don't know much about porting across consoles.

Whatever the situation is the Wii U must support multiplat better than the Wii, right? Don't know.

As far as I know the Gamepad is pretty much able to represent your typical traditional controller, just with the addition of the screen in the middle is all. However, if it is an issue for devs there is the Wii U pro controller which is closer in design to the Xbox 360 controller. However, I would assume that Nintendo would prefer if devs tried to utilize the gamepad which could hamper things.

I would imagine that the Wii U could support next-gen titles much more easily than the Wii did. Like I said before I'm not a technical expert, but from what I have read it seems that the Wii suffered from lack of ports mostly due to the Hollywood CPU and the way that it handled certain CPU tasks. The speculation I have read indicates that the Wii U will probably end up receiving slightly gimped ports (i.e. less enemies on screen, particle effects, AI etc...).

The Wii U is perfectly positioned to be the go-to console for local multiplayer.

If they can carve out this niche I wouldn't mind. Local multiplayer really needs to make a comeback and I can see the Wii U doing excellently in that department.

I think that once the casual gaming demographic starts to weigh their options for possible home gaming solutions that the Wii U would be their first pick. The gamepad is perfect to draw in people that are already used to gaming on their phones and tablets since it is a input method they enjoy and are already familiar with. Plus, once the initial confusion regarding whether or not the Wii U is a add-on for the Wii is dissipated, then I could see a lot of people seeing a real benefit in upgrading to a Wii U instead of a PS4/Xbox because they already have a bunch of Wiimotes/classic controller/nunchuks to use on the Wii U, especially considering the more than likely higher price points for PS4/Xbox and a potential price cut by Nintendo this holiday season to try and take the wind out of MS and Sony's sails.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 10:31:07 AM by skaldicpoet9 » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 10:28:34 AM »

Kain, with Halo 4 you mean releasing it now?

I think these companies should consider releasing multiple controllers, like an iPhone every year, but a new controller, that feels different. You can have two lines: the bulky and the light etc. Controllers are very personal, like golf clubs or cars. The game boy follows this model. The classic controller could have benefited this way.

The question for porting becomes, at least always for me it would be, can I use the (Wii U) gamepad to add more to the game? Assuming I'm already on PS4. ... There's a skill to making your game's hardware dependencies flexible from the beginning. If devs see the unique value of each system then they are more likely to think about these things. I think the Wii U game pad offers more opportunity to expand a "hardcore" game than the wiimote and nunchuck did.
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skaldicpoet9
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 10:39:37 AM »

The question for porting becomes, at least always for me it would be, can I use the (Wii U) gamepad to add more to the game? Assuming I'm already on PS4. ... There's a skill to making your game's hardware dependencies flexible from the beginning. If devs see the unique value of each system then they are more likely to think about these things. I think the Wii U game pad offers more opportunity to expand a "hardcore" game than the wiimote and nunchuck did.

I sure hope so. However, I can see the potential for lazy implementations of the gamepad because developers feel pressured or obligated to utilize it. Although, a lot of the reason behind the Wiimotes difficulty being adapted well was due to the fact that the input method is better for some games (FPS,3rd person shooters) and horribly counter-intuitive for others. It's a lot easier to find effective uses of the gamepad, even if it is just dedicated to inventory and the HUD.
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 10:48:22 AM »

To get back onto discussion: how do you think that the difference in hardware specs will effect the Wii U's potential for multiplat releases?

At least as bad as the Wii in this generation, but it might be worse if the Wii U sales don't pick up.
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skaldicpoet9
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 10:54:08 AM »

My prediction is that the Wii U will receive spotty multiplat support for the next year or two and then start to fall off after the PS4 and Durango really start pushing the envelope. I just can't see the Wii U getting much support when we start seeing games that begin to push the hardware more. The only possible scenario where Nintendo might see multiplats further down the line would be if the Wii U started to sell much better than it currently is.
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 10:55:37 AM »

Well, the gamepad is also in addition to. The Wii's controllers were a trade-off. You lost something and gained something. The new gamepad is more like a straight gain. Also, a touch screen offers way more variety than motion control, offers a second kind of feedback, can be used for drop-in play, carried around etc.

I feel kind of like this generation is different, in response to the Wii U's sales figures. Ouya, Minecraft. These things now are community based. They don't need big launches, because it's not about marketing, it's about quality of content and consumers communicating with each other.

There's still many opportunities for people to make killer games for the Wii U, things that take the gamepad to a whole new level, get my Mom to play beside me, and not in some casual game. I think that's why the Wii U release was so low-key: intentional because of a respect for the new way the market works.

We're kind of talking about the Wii U a lot.

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skaldicpoet9
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 11:11:13 AM »

I feel kind of like this generation is different, in response to the Wii U's sales figures. Ouya, Minecraft. These things now are community based. They don't need big launches, because it's not about marketing, it's about quality of content and consumers communicating with each other.

I could argue that for Minecraft I suppose. And perhaps even the Ouya (even though the jury is still out on the market for that console). However, I don't think Nintendo is really in the position to not market the console as much as possible and to as many demographics as possible. Sure, the Wii U will probably be more niche then the PS4 and Next-box, but Nintendo is still a major player in the console space: not just quality content is going to save them, they need more exposure.

We're kind of talking about the Wii U a lot.

Apparently that is the dreaded curse of all PS4 threads on TIGS: we end up talking about other things  Facepalm

Soooo, back on the topic of PS4....

What does everyone think of the new "social" media features such as the sharing button? I think that is could potentially be a great place to expose more people from the console space to the ability to publish their own Let's Plays and other video content.

I'm not terribly keen on the whole idea of Facebook/whatever integration, but I do think it will have value for some people at least. Not to go back to blabbing about the Wii U, but I think this is something that Nintendo really did right this time around with Miiverse. If Sony can create something as interesting and inclusive you can count me in.
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 11:16:11 AM »

Content sells consoles. No one hears about the Wii U. Suddenly Zelda is big. Everyone plays it. Has a big marketing push. Everyone hears about the Wii U.

--

To PS4. What's a feature I should be excited about, as a potential dev for it? Pick whatever you want.
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 02:40:51 PM »

As primarily a PC gamer I like that the specs are so high. It does mean that PC gamers have to upgrade but now we can finally see a leap in technology again. I'm not sure how it'll work out for Sony though. If the rumours are true the 720 will be noticeably weaker, but that means it might be a lot cheaper. Historically the more powerful console has never had a huge advantage so in the end it will come down to something else.

Personally I think openness of the platform and quality of digital distribution services might be the most important factor. I think Sony might be open minded and desperate enough to learn from Steam's aggressive pricing and truly open their platform to all developers. These things already are PCs, there's no reason why I should have to wait for Sony to make a twitter app or w/e, twitter should be able to release their own. The PC has proved it and Apple has proved it, your users will provide more value for eachother than you possibly can if you just let them.
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 03:24:19 PM »

PS4 more open than 720?
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shinygerbil
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 04:22:55 PM »

I always take these things with a pinch of salt, but rumours that have been floating around for a while say that the PS4 is indeed much more open and easy to dev for than 720. Presumably because Sony were burned by the PS3's difficulty in that regard.

Honestly, with the advent of Steam for PC gaming, the length of the current cycle leading to a huge installed base, the recession and all that jazz, I think both consoles will struggle to gain as much traction as expected.

I'm not saying I'd like to see them crash and burn, but I think consoles are becoming less and less...necessary? Relevant? I'm not sure of the exact word, but less and less something. Gently sliding into obsolescence.

However! For those who don't have a PC, the PS4 is sounding fairly decent right now. Not much in the way of innovation, but just a seamless powerhouse ready to play games on. The thing I'm most excited about is probably the instant suspend/resume thing - that's a powerful 'pick-up-and-play' tool right there, which has always been one of the motivations behind having a console in the first place. Anything which doesn't turn out very good (touchpad, Cher button) will just be ignored by those who don't want to use it.

The thing I'd like to see most but probably won't? True digital distribution on a par with Steam, at prices to compete with Steam. I just don't see Sony and Microsoft treating their consoles as PCs, regardless of the fact that that is all they are.
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 04:41:47 PM »

tbh, i don't really care about consoles anymore. pc gaming is so much more convenient these days it's ridiculous (steam, lower hardware requirements for new games thanks to console ports and smalltime devs) and most of the games that interest me are released on the platform. i have all 3 current gen consoles but i rarely use them for anything anymore except watching blu rays on my ps3
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 05:09:25 PM »

I'd say it's still about 50/50 for me. Right now I'm playing a lot of psp and psone games on the vita. Finally playing Vagrant Story etc...

Essentially consoles and PC still both give me different things I want in a gaming experience so they are still relevant.

Not a big fan of the social stuff on the ps4. I guess with the popularity of the lets plays on youtube it might be a smart thing to have the share button. I wouldnt really know because I don't really watch lets plays.

The playstation mobile sdk development team have said if there was enough interest they would consider adding the ps3 as a compile target to the c# library. If that happened for ps4 that would be cool.
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 05:21:35 PM »

I often want to share something, but games don't give me a way to extract that stuff. Videos are interesting though. 1 step.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 05:32:19 PM »

Plus game are multiplat, expect non exclusive to be on pc, it's even a good news for pc gamer because it will unlock new level of production value hold back by console. And it's a good news for the wiiU, basically being just like another "PC" port to scale. And for the first time pc are still the stronger technology (but not at this level of price).
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 05:58:39 PM »

I still prefer consoles because I know with absolute certainty that I can put a game in the slot and push power and it'll run. No farting around with display settings, fiddling with a choice of controllers (though the ubiquity of the XBox controller has eased this) or worrying if my video card is up to snuff.

I also like that consoles have (at least up until the PS4, apparently) zero DRM to deal with. I buy a game, and it's mine. Take it to a friends house, loan it to somebody, borrow it from somebody else, no worries. Put it in and play and it's mine forever.

Given the choice, that's why I tend to buy games for my console over the PC release whenever possible. I don't see myself changing any time soon.
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