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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsthe Game (by Graham)
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Graham-
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 11:23:50 AM »

So I'm a couple days away from the first "real" design - the one that has actual implementation details. I've said this before... much of the point of this game circles the process we take as devs from concept to implementation.

The game is simultaneously a regular game, with combat and exploration and juicy control, and also a tool for players to collaborate on extending the game. Think of Minecraft, with more monsters, a campaign, and elements of that campaign that teach players how to cooperate in order to build the most interesting structures possible.

Then through the game world players can "browse" structures made by other players, similar to how Minecraft players browse the web for interesting servers. Hopefully players can find interesting content this way, and not only that find interesting teams to join up with and contribute to, creating even more stuff.

What takes an idea to implementation? That's what this game seeks to answer, among some other things. So I will show you my process in detail, for at least a few cases, before it starts to become automated and you can just "see" it in action - that I admit would be much easier and I don't blame anyone who wants to wait for that time.

Also I write for my records and mental health. 3 new posts:
  Create part 1
  Create part 2
  Share

I am currently working on "divisions." Divisions are simple. Imagine that you wrote down 5 pages of ideas for your game. How should you start implementing? Which ideas should you scrap? How should you focus your attention? I have a system for this.

Take everything you have and try to divide it into two chunks, that are mutually exclusive, have their own "character," and are equally weighted. For example two chunks could be "action type mechanics" and "RPG type mechanics." Simple right?

The goal is to find an even balance. So if you have 5 equally sizable great ideas in 1 chunk and only 3 of the same size and value in the other, then you have an improper balance. First you create balance, then you create a design.

The reasons for this are very important and underlie the entire system. You cannot abstract and scale the collaborative creative process without being able to analyze your ideas in a context-free and clear way.

Next steps:
  • Share the "divisions" (and balancing) of the "play, create, share" discussions with you when they are done and formatted.
  • Show the process for creating a design based on these divisions.
  • Implement the design and share the results - this is a playable prototype.

Then I can begin the process of including other people. I will be able to show how any person can reasonably include their insights into the design process without being stamped out or needing the ability to implement something.

Normally to include yourself in a creative process you must "meld" with the other creators so that you know how to blend your ideas in with their vision. This "melding" - i.e. seeing eye-to-eye - is the biggest barrier to collaborative game creation, and even implementing abstract ideas - what prevents game development from being purely expressive.

Obviously I hope to address these problems.

Thank you to everyone who has given me feedback so far. Even expressing what I have not made clear is immensely valuable. Thank you.
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Greg Game Man
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 03:40:23 PM »

i just lost the game fuck you graham
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Graham-
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

what? (I'm totally confused. I can't tell if that's a joke or something. Maybe not.)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 05:25:27 PM by Graham. » Logged
gimymblert
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 05:30:19 PM »

you don't know the game? Shocked
Quote
Rule 1: You are playing The Game.
You, along with everyone else in the world, always is, always has been,
and always will be playing The Game. Neither awareness nor consent is required to play.

Rule 2: Every time you think about The Game, you lose.
Loss is temporary; as soon as you forget about The Game you stop losing.
The objective of The Game is to forget that it exists. Good luck.

Rule 3: Loss of The Game must be announced.
Every time you think about The Game, and hence lose, you must say so.
This is the only rule that can be broken, but do you really need to cheat..?
http://www.losethegame.com/
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2013, 02:36:03 AM »

Ah no I didn't think about that. Thanks. I had a feeling it was something.
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« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2013, 05:17:15 AM »

I appreciate this devlog, it's gives some good insight to your development process rather than being just a screenshot slideshow.
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2013, 06:17:35 AM »

Thank you. I'll try to keep it good.
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« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 06:26:17 AM »

Do you have a master degree, phd or something like that? It seems that your working process and writings are very academic. I like that.
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 07:51:28 AM »

No but it's an honor to hear that. You know how to stroke my ego.
I loved school and took a very theoretical approach to everything. I saved up resources so that I could study full-time on my own.

I felt like there were games that could be made that I wanted to play that didn't exist because no one had invented the theory to back them up yet. So I was motivated to find the theory on my own.

I don't have a lot of experience making games. I do have experience making other stuff, coding, business etc. My game knowledge is largely theoretical because that's where I feel my strengths lie.

Thank you again.
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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 10:19:48 AM »

I felt like there were games that could be made that I wanted to play that didn't exist because no one had invented the theory to back them up yet.
Mind sharing them ideas? (unless they are action-adventure-RPGs set in MMO worlds with lifelike NPCs, insanely deep combat and non-linear rich stories)
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« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2013, 10:53:55 AM »

Well I mean in general. This game is a collection of all those ideas. So by doing what I'm doing I will be sharing them. You'll just have to wait.

Some tips:
  • Action/adventure with fighting game mechanics. I cannot name a single one.
  • Any RPG with freedom in how you build your party or char. There is never enough freedom, or it is illusory i.e. in Diablo or WoW.
  • Half-Life 2 without load times.
  • Prince of Persia platforming integrated with combat. In the actual series combat and platforming are separate things. Assassin's Creed kind of went for this a little.
  • Pokemon but you treat your monsters like beings. They are interactive NPCs.
  • Starcraft but the campaign actually teaches you how to play well. The existing series doesn't even remotely do this.
  • Well crafted story lines that react to player input believably in meaningful ways.

I am going to try and hit all of those.

Those are just off the top of my head. The real list is embedded in my subconscious, as all our dream designs are.

edit:

Some more:
  • Generated levels but with hand-crafted quality.
  • Self-adjusting difficulty curves that don't break the story. This means challenge is balanced for all players - so it is unique to each one - but the campaign arc isn't disturbed.
  • A game that is difficult like Dark Souls, deep like Go, and accessible like Angry Birds.
  • Just better blending of mechanics and story.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:19:29 AM by Graham. » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2013, 07:44:54 AM »

I'll be finishing the first design iteration today. I'll share the process I used to get there after I share the design. The process will take some explanation to make comprehensible and I'd like to do a semi-decent job it.

In the meantime here is a warm-up exercise I did yesterday. I just start writing down and idea and go with it until I’m tried of brainstorming.

Also I've been doing a lot of overhead stuff, like monetization strategy, details on the design process, research into some of my inspirational areas – tv, what I want out of the game long-term, how I plan for the “collaborate on the game across the web” details to work out and so on.

-----

That's the first part of this post: wolves in the forest
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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2013, 05:53:04 PM »

I'll be finishing the first design iteration today. I'll share the process I used to get there after I share the design. The process will take some explanation to make comprehensible and I'd like to do a semi-decent job it.

In the meantime here is a warm-up exercise I did yesterday. I just start writing down and idea and go with it until I’m tried of brainstorming.

Also I've been doing a lot of overhead stuff, like monetization strategy, details on the design process, research into some of my inspirational areas – tv, what I want out of the game long-term, how I plan for the “collaborate on the game across the web” details to work out and so on.

-----

That's the first part of this post: wolves in the forest

And you hated the tutorial of star and light ?

You should have enjoyed this (secretely)
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« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2013, 05:58:26 PM »

Hahah. Lots of text you mean?

I write a ton when I design, like a ton. But my games are as approachable as can be. Be wordy in prep, clean in execution.
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2013, 06:28:10 PM »

For the record and my own mental health....

I originally planned to do a single, small, design, that was the result of condensing all of my notes up until this point, into a simple-to-implement plan. The work that I have done in pursuit of this is complicated, and goes beyond the "simplicity" I originally had in mind. As a result the work is complex to explain, and I feel would be better understood if I revealed a prototype then worked backwards to explain how I got there.

I want to post something in lieu of the design. It is a cutout of my design work. Later on I'll contextualize it.

This stuff is not for the faint of heart. It is meaty and technical, and long.

--

^ from post: some design notes

--

So wait a while until I have something to show. I'll probably not post until then.
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« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2013, 10:01:28 AM »

This is Synecdoche, New York: The Game and it's both beautiful and sad. Good luck, man.
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2013, 07:46:24 AM »

We'll see, man.
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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2013, 08:13:10 AM »

I suppose this needs an update. I've been arguing with people on these forums for a long time, and a lot of similar conflicts come up. I think in many ways I started this devlog, and my blog, just to see how I would feel about sharing something. To be honest, I _really_ did it to see if I felt I could raise money to go forward on this project as a means of self-sustenance. I realized that now (then) was not the right time, so I took a job instead, making a game. Nice.

There are a lot of things that need to be sorted out to make this work. I'm going to talk a little bit about myself, because that's what these threads are for. In my case my game is intensely personal, and I find people understand it more when they learn about me, than when they learn about the theory, because there is simply too much of it.

Also, I have some questions I'd like to answer for myself, so might as well do it writing, as I commonly do.

OK. I am a Buddhist. That's relevant, because it controls how I do my work. I am intensely Buddhist, and not in a Tibetan-absorbed culturally "worldly" asshole kind of way. I mean I can argue any decision right down to what the Buddha called "the truths." I argued philosophy more than anyone as a child, and continued to do so for my entire life. I know more about religious systems - not historically, or in a world politics way, but a theoretical way - than I do about game design. And game design/development is the thing I know the second most about, so that's saying something. Though many people will disagree with both of these points on these forums.

I've been pursuing my ideal work environment literally since I was 4 years old when I looked around and said to myself, "I don't belong here, I need to make a change." I have since then become increasingly consumed by the desire to find the correct way to contribute, something I knew I would do from an early age later on in my life, spending my time up until that point preparing. So I have studied business like a machine, and argued the subject with any person I could find who could stand it. I kicked the shit out of the school to the point that in 4th year (of my 5 year co-op degree) I left to continue my studies on my own, because I believed it would be faster. Don't get me wrong (trademark), I loved school - best place on earth, and I hated leaving - but what they taught had become too structured and I needed the freedom to learn on my own. Before that point I certainly wasn't ready.

School was the thing up until I worked that I was best at. I was so much better at it than I was at anything else. My particular strength, over anything, was my ability to "think in a new way." That's where it was at. In particular I was good at solving problems entirely in my head, on my own, though I require a great deal of inspiration from the people around me, and usually seek it out. See the pattern.

This game has been a difficult pursuit. I wrote a poker AI that is 75% complete, that is a revolution in how these AIs are designed - yes I have the authority to say this. But I'm religiously bound not to release something that will produce a blip in my greater plans. This is unfortunate, and I struggled with it for a long time, but here we are.

Trust me, the idea of walking away from an easy way to make money - after years of research, and 2 of development - was not an easy one to accept, and I struggled with it for a long time.

Later on I'll do the poker thing, once this game has sturdy growth - something that is a good deal away from happening. I've been working on this thing since I was born. That's how it feels. I could have lectured on good business design when I was a kid - and no one would have listened. Anyway, now I'm rambling.

Just wait. That's the best I can say. Just wait. It will happen. Things take time. Months, years: these are nothing. When you've been working on something this long you don't even care about failure anymore. All you can see is the job. You get up and you do it, because if you don't you will die. That's it. It has to finish because I don't have anything else. All of my relationships are based on my confidence in this. You just have to wait.

Here is my C.S. average: 95%.
Here is how long I've been studying AI: 10 years.
Here is how long I've cared about dynamic stories: since I was 6.

So, when you're about to lecture me about the constraints of game design, or generated systems, or AI, or whatever - my strengths - talking like you know everything, stfu, because you don't know what you are talking about. I've been on this path my whole life. The "indie" scene is new to me, but games are not. I've been following this dream in my own way forever. Leave it alone.

Love you guys, thanks for reading. Back when I'm ready. I've got to work now.
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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2013, 08:33:22 AM »

For the people who have supported me, and that's about half of you, and that's pretty good, thank you for your support. I should not have "led" anyone on. I was looking for a job, and am working it now. That leaves me with small windows to work on this thing directly. So obviously progress is slower. But most importantly I'm relearning many of the things that come with working in a company, and that is a necessary thing to do. So I am doing it. In a sense progress is right where it should be.

I'll scream towards a prototype as a fast as I can, balancing family and health (and work) along the way. I don't know how long that will take. But work is work, and reward is proportional to the effort. I'll get there or die trying. There is no other option.

Anyway, on a more positive note, I'm feeling good about the design right now. Most of my bases are covered, and I am currently trying to organize everything - several thousand pages of notes - into a single design, or at least a singular enough of a design to justify real code that produces a playable prototype. It will be in UDK, unlike Unity like I said somewhere else earlier. UDK is cooler and more flexible, and I prefer it.

I won't be "sharing designs" in that process because that will take too much time. I need the prototype, then I'll work backwards to show how I got there, and include people in further iterations. The reason I did it the other way around the first time was to gain some feedback, reflect and so on, because communication with people all over the place, across the web and so on, is an important part of this project. I needed the practice.

That's enough for now, I hope.
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« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »

Just show me some of your game pictures. I love pictures, even a simple draft title. Or perhaps you can show some battle/AI system references from Ytube you like. I want eye candies. It's been months. Droop
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