Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

998244 Posts in 39149 Topics- by 30560 Members - Latest Member: kust

April 18, 2014, 10:16:28 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsthe Game (by Graham)
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
Print
Author Topic: the Game (by Graham)  (Read 6525 times)
Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 11:12:00 AM »

I want to reply to the previous two replies.

I don't know how to explain easily why I have to do it this way. I just do. I think as the project moves forward it will become clear why design is so important to this game. Every game has its strengths. Mine most certainly has its in the design. That's where most of the weight is.

You'll see a prototype soon too - maximum 2 weeks. I just wanted to walk through many of the details in reaching that point in a public sphere. Much of this project will be "open." I expect people to contribute. In a sense this game is designed around the goal of having people contribute, making that process easier. So I wanted to start sharing right away... so that I would know how it felt to do that, see how people would react.

Every game should start with its strengths. If you're a rocking character designer, start with characters. If your game is about the environment, start with that. My game is about communicating the design, the vision that "you" have for making the game better. That is the most important piece. So that's the piece I have shared first.
Logged
base64
Level 7
**


grope


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 11:31:31 AM »

I'm a little confused by your project, you've designed an ai, that crafts a game based on player feedback?
Logged

Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 11:34:34 AM »

Sort of, yeah.

The AI bit is kind of middle level tech, so it won't go in until later. At the beginning it will be more like... generated levels, that players play, then provide feedback on either directly or indirectly - such as through metrics. Then this feedback is analyzed, either by basic systems or by me, and the game changes.

Logged
Impmaster
Level 10
*****


Scary, isn't it?


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 05:29:14 PM »

Guys, let's just wait until he gets a prototype running, to see what it's all about. Sorry Graham, but right now, it's a little too abstract to truly understand what you're talking about.
Logged

Do I need a signature?
poe
Guest
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 05:31:58 PM »

I think I get what you're saying, so the level gen will try and produce similar levels to those with positive feedback, right?
Logged
base64
Level 7
**


grope


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 08:25:15 PM »

Sort of, yeah.

The AI bit is kind of middle level tech, so it won't go in until later. At the beginning it will be more like... generated levels, that players play, then provide feedback on either directly or indirectly - such as through metrics. Then this feedback is analyzed, either by basic systems or by me, and the game changes.



word definitely interested, I can't imagine how this will turn out (I guess that's kind of the point), it seems to really rely on feedback from your players to be successful.  keep us posted
Logged

Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2013, 03:12:55 AM »

Thank you. Yes, that's kind of the point. I don't know how it will turn out either. Feedback is very important.

Poe, yes. So let's say I have levels constructed of 5 pieces. Say each piece has a challenge rating of 1-5, 1 being easiest. Then players play. The gen might realize that players like a level of escalating challenge followed by 1 that's a little easier, then 2 more that are much harder - something like that. That's just a simple example.

Impmaster, abstraction or not the concepts are still understandable. So if I talk about creativity in games how it applies to this game might be unclear, but how it applies to any given game is something anyone will have an opinion on. So communicating even at this step is valuable to me.

edit: A prototype will still help a ton Wink.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 07:25:25 AM by Graham. » Logged
Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 11:23:50 AM »

So I'm a couple days away from the first "real" design - the one that has actual implementation details. I've said this before... much of the point of this game circles the process we take as devs from concept to implementation.

The game is simultaneously a regular game, with combat and exploration and juicy control, and also a tool for players to collaborate on extending the game. Think of Minecraft, with more monsters, a campaign, and elements of that campaign that teach players how to cooperate in order to build the most interesting structures possible.

Then through the game world players can "browse" structures made by other players, similar to how Minecraft players browse the web for interesting servers. Hopefully players can find interesting content this way, and not only that find interesting teams to join up with and contribute to, creating even more stuff.

What takes an idea to implementation? That's what this game seeks to answer, among some other things. So I will show you my process in detail, for at least a few cases, before it starts to become automated and you can just "see" it in action - that I admit would be much easier and I don't blame anyone who wants to wait for that time.

Also I write for my records and mental health. 3 new posts:
  Create part 1
  Create part 2
  Share

I am currently working on "divisions." Divisions are simple. Imagine that you wrote down 5 pages of ideas for your game. How should you start implementing? Which ideas should you scrap? How should you focus your attention? I have a system for this.

Take everything you have and try to divide it into two chunks, that are mutually exclusive, have their own "character," and are equally weighted. For example two chunks could be "action type mechanics" and "RPG type mechanics." Simple right?

The goal is to find an even balance. So if you have 5 equally sizable great ideas in 1 chunk and only 3 of the same size and value in the other, then you have an improper balance. First you create balance, then you create a design.

The reasons for this are very important and underlie the entire system. You cannot abstract and scale the collaborative creative process without being able to analyze your ideas in a context-free and clear way.

Next steps:
  • Share the "divisions" (and balancing) of the "play, create, share" discussions with you when they are done and formatted.
  • Show the process for creating a design based on these divisions.
  • Implement the design and share the results - this is a playable prototype.

Then I can begin the process of including other people. I will be able to show how any person can reasonably include their insights into the design process without being stamped out or needing the ability to implement something.

Normally to include yourself in a creative process you must "meld" with the other creators so that you know how to blend your ideas in with their vision. This "melding" - i.e. seeing eye-to-eye - is the biggest barrier to collaborative game creation, and even implementing abstract ideas - what prevents game development from being purely expressive.

Obviously I hope to address these problems.

Thank you to everyone who has given me feedback so far. Even expressing what I have not made clear is immensely valuable. Thank you.
Logged
Greg Game Man
Level 5
*****


i have to return some videotapes


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 03:40:23 PM »

i just lost the game fuck you graham
Logged

Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

what? (I'm totally confused. I can't tell if that's a joke or something. Maybe not.)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 05:25:27 PM by Graham. » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


Feminism is back!


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 05:30:19 PM »

you don't know the game? Shocked
Quote
Rule 1: You are playing The Game.
You, along with everyone else in the world, always is, always has been,
and always will be playing The Game. Neither awareness nor consent is required to play.

Rule 2: Every time you think about The Game, you lose.
Loss is temporary; as soon as you forget about The Game you stop losing.
The objective of The Game is to forget that it exists. Good luck.

Rule 3: Loss of The Game must be announced.
Every time you think about The Game, and hence lose, you must say so.
This is the only rule that can be broken, but do you really need to cheat..?
http://www.losethegame.com/
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 02:36:03 AM »

Ah no I didn't think about that. Thanks. I had a feeling it was something.
Logged
sublinimal
Level 8
***



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 05:17:15 AM »

I appreciate this devlog, it's gives some good insight to your development process rather than being just a screenshot slideshow.
Logged
Graham.
Level 10
*****


hasn't made a game


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 06:17:35 AM »

Thank you. I'll try to keep it good.
Logged
thersus
Level 0
***


Sometimes I'm grumpy, sometimes I'm not.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 06:26:17 AM »

Do you have a master degree, phd or something like that? It seems that your working process and writings are very academic. I like that.
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic