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1026564 Posts in 41153 Topics- by 32757 Members - Latest Member: nanoboy

July 25, 2014, 12:56:30 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsthe Game (by Graham)
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keo
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 11:31:31 AM »

I'm a little confused by your project, you've designed an ai, that crafts a game based on player feedback?
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Graham-
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 11:34:34 AM »

Sort of, yeah.

The AI bit is kind of middle level tech, so it won't go in until later. At the beginning it will be more like... generated levels, that players play, then provide feedback on either directly or indirectly - such as through metrics. Then this feedback is analyzed, either by basic systems or by me, and the game changes.

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Impmaster
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 05:29:14 PM »

Guys, let's just wait until he gets a prototype running, to see what it's all about. Sorry Graham, but right now, it's a little too abstract to truly understand what you're talking about.
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 05:31:58 PM »

I think I get what you're saying, so the level gen will try and produce similar levels to those with positive feedback, right?
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keo
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 08:25:15 PM »

Sort of, yeah.

The AI bit is kind of middle level tech, so it won't go in until later. At the beginning it will be more like... generated levels, that players play, then provide feedback on either directly or indirectly - such as through metrics. Then this feedback is analyzed, either by basic systems or by me, and the game changes.



word definitely interested, I can't imagine how this will turn out (I guess that's kind of the point), it seems to really rely on feedback from your players to be successful.  keep us posted
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2013, 03:12:55 AM »

Thank you. Yes, that's kind of the point. I don't know how it will turn out either. Feedback is very important.

Poe, yes. So let's say I have levels constructed of 5 pieces. Say each piece has a challenge rating of 1-5, 1 being easiest. Then players play. The gen might realize that players like a level of escalating challenge followed by 1 that's a little easier, then 2 more that are much harder - something like that. That's just a simple example.

Impmaster, abstraction or not the concepts are still understandable. So if I talk about creativity in games how it applies to this game might be unclear, but how it applies to any given game is something anyone will have an opinion on. So communicating even at this step is valuable to me.

edit: A prototype will still help a ton Wink.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 07:25:25 AM by Graham. » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 11:23:50 AM »

So I'm a couple days away from the first "real" design - the one that has actual implementation details. I've said this before... much of the point of this game circles the process we take as devs from concept to implementation.

The game is simultaneously a regular game, with combat and exploration and juicy control, and also a tool for players to collaborate on extending the game. Think of Minecraft, with more monsters, a campaign, and elements of that campaign that teach players how to cooperate in order to build the most interesting structures possible.

Then through the game world players can "browse" structures made by other players, similar to how Minecraft players browse the web for interesting servers. Hopefully players can find interesting content this way, and not only that find interesting teams to join up with and contribute to, creating even more stuff.

What takes an idea to implementation? That's what this game seeks to answer, among some other things. So I will show you my process in detail, for at least a few cases, before it starts to become automated and you can just "see" it in action - that I admit would be much easier and I don't blame anyone who wants to wait for that time.

Also I write for my records and mental health. 3 new posts:
  Create part 1
  Create part 2
  Share

I am currently working on "divisions." Divisions are simple. Imagine that you wrote down 5 pages of ideas for your game. How should you start implementing? Which ideas should you scrap? How should you focus your attention? I have a system for this.

Take everything you have and try to divide it into two chunks, that are mutually exclusive, have their own "character," and are equally weighted. For example two chunks could be "action type mechanics" and "RPG type mechanics." Simple right?

The goal is to find an even balance. So if you have 5 equally sizable great ideas in 1 chunk and only 3 of the same size and value in the other, then you have an improper balance. First you create balance, then you create a design.

The reasons for this are very important and underlie the entire system. You cannot abstract and scale the collaborative creative process without being able to analyze your ideas in a context-free and clear way.

Next steps:
  • Share the "divisions" (and balancing) of the "play, create, share" discussions with you when they are done and formatted.
  • Show the process for creating a design based on these divisions.
  • Implement the design and share the results - this is a playable prototype.

Then I can begin the process of including other people. I will be able to show how any person can reasonably include their insights into the design process without being stamped out or needing the ability to implement something.

Normally to include yourself in a creative process you must "meld" with the other creators so that you know how to blend your ideas in with their vision. This "melding" - i.e. seeing eye-to-eye - is the biggest barrier to collaborative game creation, and even implementing abstract ideas - what prevents game development from being purely expressive.

Obviously I hope to address these problems.

Thank you to everyone who has given me feedback so far. Even expressing what I have not made clear is immensely valuable. Thank you.
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Greg Game Man
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 03:40:23 PM »

i just lost the game fuck you graham
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Graham-
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

what? (I'm totally confused. I can't tell if that's a joke or something. Maybe not.)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 05:25:27 PM by Graham. » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 05:30:19 PM »

you don't know the game? Shocked
Quote
Rule 1: You are playing The Game.
You, along with everyone else in the world, always is, always has been,
and always will be playing The Game. Neither awareness nor consent is required to play.

Rule 2: Every time you think about The Game, you lose.
Loss is temporary; as soon as you forget about The Game you stop losing.
The objective of The Game is to forget that it exists. Good luck.

Rule 3: Loss of The Game must be announced.
Every time you think about The Game, and hence lose, you must say so.
This is the only rule that can be broken, but do you really need to cheat..?
http://www.losethegame.com/
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Graham-
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2013, 02:36:03 AM »

Ah no I didn't think about that. Thanks. I had a feeling it was something.
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sublinimal
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2013, 05:17:15 AM »

I appreciate this devlog, it's gives some good insight to your development process rather than being just a screenshot slideshow.
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Graham-
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« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 06:17:35 AM »

Thank you. I'll try to keep it good.
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thersus
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 06:26:17 AM »

Do you have a master degree, phd or something like that? It seems that your working process and writings are very academic. I like that.
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Graham-
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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 07:51:28 AM »

No but it's an honor to hear that. You know how to stroke my ego.
I loved school and took a very theoretical approach to everything. I saved up resources so that I could study full-time on my own.

I felt like there were games that could be made that I wanted to play that didn't exist because no one had invented the theory to back them up yet. So I was motivated to find the theory on my own.

I don't have a lot of experience making games. I do have experience making other stuff, coding, business etc. My game knowledge is largely theoretical because that's where I feel my strengths lie.

Thank you again.
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