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[Dragonmaw]

Here's the place to talk about which is better. Go.

[poe]

Why do they all try and look like WAR 3 and have the same map? I feel like changing that up could give the game a bit of a unique look.

[GhostBomb]

I actually feel like Dota2 has a better design on paper while LoL has better gamefeel and conveyance.

[feminazi]

they all hav DUM acronyms

[The Monster King]

i'd like, right here and right now to demystify the fact that teamfights are over faster in dota2 than league, since its pretty much the complete opposite, especially when you factor in buyback. Sure, when a team has 20 kills more than the other they'll blow the other up instantly (happens in league too) but other than that unless like 3 people focus you and you are a fragile support you will last, and a fight with good players can last a while

biggest advantage of dota2 imo is that you can help other lanes, in LoL if you are the jungler you gank but otherwise you cant leave your lane because it will take the enemy team half a second to push down your tower and it will take you hours to go help AND come back, teleport scroll makes the biggest of differences

[deathtotheweird]

I would play LoL if it weren't for it's dumb business model and if it removed runes and masteries. Even if you play the game non-stop it would take months to unlock every hero with IP. But having heroes isn't enough, you need runes and rune pages to hold the runes.

When I quit I had around 1000 wins, only 3 complete rune pages and not even half the hero pool. That's after spending at least 80 dollars (and usually only buying heroes when they were on sale).

Dota2/HoN are objectively better 'mobas' simply because of the fact that all the heroes are available for free, without the need to grind games.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i like the rune stuff actually -- i think they should make all the champions free to play though, and just add a greater variety of runes, and make the runes cost more

[GhostBomb]

in LoL if you are the jungler you gank but otherwise you cant leave your lane because it will take the enemy team half a second to push down your tower and it will take you hours to go help AND come back, teleport scroll makes the biggest of differences

Actually Mid lane can help other lanes pretty easily and you'll see them gank almost as much as the jungle does.  You just have to gank when your opponent is gone so they can't countergank or pressure your tower.

[The Monster King]

why would your opponent ever leave the lane

[GhostBomb]

why would your opponent ever leave the lane

Being dead

Being almost dead

Wanting to go back and buy

Ganking another lane or getting a buff.

There aren't any couriers in LoL.

[Mittens]

When I quit I had around 1000 wins, only 3 complete rune pages and not even half the hero pool. That's after spending at least 80 dollars (and usually only buying heroes when they were on sale).

eek, now LoL disgusts me even more. I'm not opposed to free to play (when done right) but LoL sounds like it's a perfect example of how to do it wrong.

Dota's monetization doesn't make me happy either, since, in my opinion, the positives of free to play (low barrier of entry, more new players) actually cause negative effects on dota.
If accounts can simply be created for free by anyone any amount of times... then leaver penalty and ranked match making become meaningless
These are two very important things needed for the player base of dota to have fun, right?

My other issue is that I don't get to pay for the game I love to play.
The heros in dota are well designed (mostly) by professional character artists who work at Valve, just about never is swapping out a hat or sword going to improve the overall design and look of that character.

I would have happily paid 50 bucks to own a copy of dota rather than have it free with hats

[ANtY]

i like the rune stuff actually -- i think they should make all the champions free to play though, and just add a greater variety of runes, and make the runes cost more

no, this would suck, I love collecting things

@jackson: but you know, with this system some ppl (like I did with LoL) are gonna spend muuuuch more than 50 bux, and I guess that's what they're counting on

[Nillo]

My other issue is that I don't get to pay for the game I love to play.

Buy couriers. Buy announcers. Buy tournament tickets. In fact, you could just buy a bunch of items in the store and then not equip them to any of your heroes. Then Valve would get money and you can keep playing the game that you love to play.

And I strongly doubt that new Dota 2 accounts get to be in the same matchmaking bracket as people who have played 500+ games. They get matchmade against people who are also new to the game, so this is only a problem if you are new to the game.

[deathtotheweird]

watching tournaments in the client is pretty awesome, and with some of the recent larger ones you get a free courier as well. buying tickets benefits the pro scene and valve at the same time, so it's a win-win.

announcers and couriers/wards are good buys as well, because everyone in the game gets to hear the announcer or see your courier/wards (if you bought it that is).

so yeah, there are more than just cosmetics for heroes.

[Mittens]

watching tournaments in the client is pretty awesome, and with some of the recent larger ones you get a free courier as well. buying tickets benefits the pro scene and valve at the same time, so it's a win-win.

announcers and couriers/wards are good buys as well, because everyone in the game gets to hear the announcer or see your courier/wards (if you bought it that is).

so yeah, there are more than just cosmetics for heroes.

Yeah, that's true, I do think valve are bloody brilliant for making tournament tickets an integrated method of monetization, and like Gabe said in one of those more recent interviews; more could be done along these lines of benefiting both the developer and exceptional players (ie NaVi) who work to benefit the developers (by making the experience of that game more fun and appealing)

[AshfordPride]

I call them ARTS.  Action Real Time Strategies.  It's no more or less valid than any other term to call the genre, I'm just a fan of the anagram and what those four words communicate.  Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?  Each half of that word is paired with something entirely redundant.  Multiplayer and online sort of imply the other.  And durr, what are we gonna do in the arena?  Battle!  Is the arena for tea parties?  The only reason we can't call them DotA's is because muh brand awareness and what can only be described as the hissiests of fits from Riot.

But, anyway!  I hate how there can only be one of these games.  It seems that due to the massive time commitment just to learn the thing, and then the even more massive time commitment it takes to play them most people would rather just like their favorite.  Not to mention that time not playing LoL is time where you're not being paid to play in Riot fun bucks, so that seems to discourage a lot of people from branching out.  I feel like it all goes back to Riot and LoL who want to fuel this allegiance to your game.  Man, who cares, right?  But it seems like you have to drag people kicking and screaming out of their game.  Even me!  Even I didn't want to bother with Dota2 at first, but now it's the only one I play.  Nobody wants to give up on this game that they put so much time into, and then keeps demanding they put in more!  The prices in LoL are absurd and I've been around for every nerf of IP gains they were so kind to deliver unto us.

I'm not going to mince words here, I love the fact that I have the ability to play every hero in Dota2.  Love it, love it, love it.  Because now the game isn't a JOB to me.  Each loss isn't this crushing set back in my month long quest to get a champion that I'll be able to play a few times IF the game calls for it and I'm not forced to play the same three things I play well that nobody wants to do.  I can play a game...  And enjoy it...  As a game!  How liberating to think of something I do in my spare time as nothing more than FUN.  

Not a big fan of how one bad apple can spoil the bunch in LoL.  It only takes on idiot to really create a fed monster who will become this unstoppable force for the rest of the game.  In Dota2, as bad as things get, I always feel like I have a shot to stop things.  Like, it's only going to take one good team fight, or one good gank, or maybe some careful warding, or SOMETHING.  In LoL I feel like playing well for twenty minutes is just completely invalidated by some Brazilian child who needs to be dragged kicking and screaming to competence.  Dota2 allows you to come back from mistakes and missteps, while LoL gives you the option to surrender after twenty minutes.  It still can't save you from the dregs of humanity, but it helps the game not feel like a hopelessness simulator.

I just really like Valve most of the time.  On the whole, I really like where they take their games and how they handle them, even if I do have some gripes against them.  I'm really surprised with how well Dota2 turned out.

Also, hey, guys, did anyone play Monday Night Combat and the sequel?  I wish those went somewhere...

[AshfordPride]

And if you'd like to pretend you were having this same conversation, but without all that pesky intelligence getting in the way, you can read this article.

[nekokoneko]

Or not read that article, and remove it from the thread because its completely fucking retarded.

After putting 200 hours into DOTA2 over the last 2 weeks i still don't feel anywhere near qualified to talk about the finer points of its design and to try and break down its design and how each element threads into another.

In regards to the level of polish across the board though it is far and away the superior game technically and I think these elements will only shine as time goes on as we see Riot struggle to play catchup. I actually feel quite disgusted at how incompetent Riot have been thus far with their handling of features in League of legends, it doesn't take much digging around into old patchnotes to realise how much theyve failed to deliver so many must have elements that no doubt War3 Dota had.

As Sam says though, it's going to be another instance of what happened with WoW, with people having invested time into LoL and inflated their imaginary numbers to the point of attachment, parted with cash on amateur skins and now feeling that they don't want to part ways with the game.

[AshfordPride]

Or not read that article, and remove it from the thread because its completely fucking retarded.

It's important.

Look, me being haughty about it aside, I think there's a lot to learn about what people who may not be the best authorities regarding either of these games feel are the reasons why one is superior to the other.  It's important because I feel that this is the position that a lot of people are coming from.  There aren't a lot of people who can claim to be an authority on both of these games, in fact with my two hundred hours in Dota2 I'm still EXTREMELY hesitant to weigh in on anything with absolutely certainly, beyond perhaps a gut reaction to a certain mechanic or dynamic.  I am interested in these very obvious, and even erroneous, conclusions that these two drew, because I feel like there's a potential for a more informed opinion to come from someone else after being inspired by what these two have to say.

For example, they handled that skill shot argument pretty horribly, but I feel like it's a pretty interesting talking point. 

[nekokoneko]

Edited my post, sorry and it's nice to see what your stance is on that article. Thing is, its of no real value to me and its akin to reading a discussion on youtube. To see that on a website that has what i consider an obligation to inform rather than be ignorant to so many elements is just poor.

When it comes to breaking down mechanics and games i'm really fond of

https://www.youtube.com/user/Campster

and

http://www.sirlin.net/