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[PoV]

it's amazing how many programming tutorials out there just assume you know things, or tell you to fill in the blanks yourself

I feel the same way, but more strongly towards math.  In my opinion, math is taught terribly.  I've thrown around the idea of the "3D Math Pop-Up-Book", or coloring book.  As I see it, math is that easy, once you get past the Greek.

[Alevice]

I don't really think either a programmer or an artist would be more adequate for managment than the other.

Heck, even on software development, most good leaders are people who usually have just the merest notions of programming, but understand clearly the development flow and the needs of the end user.

[Bad Sector]

As I see it, math is that easy, once you get past the Greek.

Then why i still have issues with math?

[PoV]

Spartans in your brain, keeping the answers hostage. 

[Dust]

Thats where i get stuck on code as well, i doon't know good math

[ravuya]

A 3D math colouring book would be awesome.

[sega]

A 3D math colouring book would be awesome.

It'd be pretty cool for some autistic people, who see numbers as colors and patterns.

[Chris Whitman]

I feel the same way, but more strongly towards math.  In my opinion, math is taught terribly.  I've thrown around the idea of the "3D Math Pop-Up-Book", or coloring book.  As I see it, math is that easy, once you get past the Greek.

Sort of. I think it'd be nice to have more teaching aides available for students which included visual examples, particularly for problem classes in second year, once you start to get more heavily into theory and are required to deal with more complicated geometry (the shift from exclusively 2D into 3D and higher dimensions).

I have been doing a bit of math tutoring for high school students, recently, and the way students are taught (or not taught) basic algebra is pretty atrocious. No wonder students at the university level are woefully unprepared to do even elementary calculus. Even in first year, though, when professors don't hammer the rigorous definition of a limit into the students' heads, how do they think they're going to fair for power series, etc.? Rumour has it that the University of Victoria (the local university around these parts) has almost a 50% failure rate for first year calculus.

As a point of curiosity, what sorts of math are giving you guys trouble?

[PoV]

I'd say the issue is most people have is they're taught to memorize obscure forumla, instead of how to practically use it, and where the formula fits in.  Vector math is incredibly visual.  If I had a stronger understanding of how to "think in vectors" whilst in school, Sine/Cosine/Logarithms/Parabolic/Bezier curves would have been a "Oh, you can do that too!  Neat!" issue. 

For example, instead of useful concepts of co-ordinate systems or the hierarchical relationships created by taking the difference between 2 points/vectors, we're fed "Rise over Run" as the vector math foundation.  A stupid formula for the slope of a line.  It tells us nothing of scale, constraint, only that for ever 2 of these we get 1 of these.  In fact, at the time, I barely even know what scale is mathematically speaking.  The significance of 1 is oblivious to me. 

I had to invent vector math myself, to get past the cryptic insignificant absurdity of numerical integration and the hypotenuse of a triangle.

It can't remember the exact timing, but I'm pretty sure I worked on 7 commercial games before I even learned real vector math.  All of them as the Technical Lead (CPU's and code design "I got", 2 games in pure assembly), some of them as the Lead Programmer.

Today I write custom physics and graphics engines.

[Chris Whitman]

For example, instead of useful concepts of co-ordinate systems or the hierarchical relationships created by taking the difference between 2 points/vectors, we're fed "Rise over Run" as the vector math foundation.  A stupid formula for the slope of a line.  It tells us nothing of scale, constraint, only that for ever 2 of these we get 1 of these.  In fact, at the time, I barely even know what scale is mathematically speaking.  The significance of 1 is oblivious to me.

I think it's probably a little difficult to get people started on bases and vector spaces without introducing lines first, and the concept of relative rates of change (as evidenced in the slope of a line) is fairly important, and good preparation for calculus.

Still, I have a huge issue with the emphasis on memorizing formulas. Sure, it gets you through the material, but it basically has no use beyond writing the set exams. You're essentially required to figure out the material on your own in order to gain anything from low level math courses. Not that it's a bad thing if you can do that, but it hurts a lot of students who are just starting out, I think.

[PoV]

I think it's probably a little difficult to get people started on bases and vector spaces without introducing lines first, and the concept of relative rates of change (as evidenced in the slope of a line) is fairly important, and good preparation for calculus.

Fine, so introduce lines, circles, points, rectangles, triangles.  All this stuff can be introduced without delving in to maths.  All you need is graph paper, a pencil, and a ruler.  With these, introduce co-ordinate systems.  The triangle is relative to the center of the circle, which is relative to the center of the world.  Oh look, we can create shapes between any points, combine shapes to create new ones, etc.  Oh look, the circle has a center point, and oh, by the way, so does the rectangle.

All these concepts, rate of change, etc, should be taught.  Just about every mathematic taught has a practical use, but the students (and faculty) are oblivious to it.

I almost also think math should be taught with an easy programming language.  Seeing graphics on screen do something is a heck of a lot more rewarding than a checkmark.

[Dust]

Part of the reason i struggle with maths, i know it will in some way help me understand programming, but because its all pen and paper i cant see any way this is forwarding my abilities to code. It would be much easier like, PoV said to have maths taught with a easy programming language. wait...actually wouldn't that be more applicable in a computer class than a maths class or have two separate (if this was ins schools)

[fish]

i am a math retard.
i failed math4 2 times.
seriously, its like a condition.
i blame that time i fell on my head and lost consciousness when i was 4.

[Alex May]

I hate to break it to you... but you never woke up. 

[Guert]

Haowan! Why did you tell him so soon? I was saving the surprise for his 50th birthday!
Oh well, whatyagonnado...
:D