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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesfemfreq tropes vs women is out
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2013, 10:38:16 PM »

if you want a video series like that to be able to stand on its own, you have to cover basics in order for it to be a complete argument / package

i'd wait until she releases a few more videos before making any judgements

@poe i don't get why anyone thinks she's particularly annoying (compared to other youtube people, at least), aside from buying into all the bs that her main detractors throw at her... you seem to just dislike her because she says negative things about something youve wasted a large portion of your life on ? ? ?

why would she bring up metroid? unless maybe she was bringing up examples for ways in which games could change, which this video wasn't trying to do? bringing up one game series that wasn't sexist doesn't alter any of the points she was making. it's a systemic thing, and one exception doesn't suddenly change that.

and honestly, metroid is another example of the things she talks about. the latest metroid game (and basically the first one to try to tack any real personality onto samus) killed any sense of strength or independence the character had.
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Derek
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« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2013, 11:30:22 PM »

A passing mention of Metroid, even as an exception, would help her argument, I think.

I mean, it's like the difference between saying:

"Games are not art and here are examples why."

vs.

"Most games are not art. This one is close, but it's an exception that proves the rule."

Makes a world of difference if you're actually trying to reach people who disagree with you or are on the fence. And if it's a particularly contentious subject, I would think you'd want to lead with the latter and not the former.
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feminazi
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« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2013, 12:26:05 AM »

it makes zero sense to mention metroid when the topic of the episode is damsel in distress, as metroid doesn't even subvert the trope.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2013, 12:46:20 AM »

damsel in distress from their point of view is women being too weak (either physically or mentally) to save themselves.

samus does a pretty good job at subverting that trope, as she is a strong independent woman who don't need no man.
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feminazi
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« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2013, 12:50:39 AM »

oh yeah so metroid magically subverts the trope by simply not having it. good job. let's start listing every single game that doesn't feature the damsel in distress plot device, that'll be fucking relevant.
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feminazi
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« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2013, 12:55:17 AM »

the only way i can imagine why anyone would think to bring up samus is because they interpreted the whole video to mean "nintendo games are sexist"
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Derek
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« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2013, 12:56:36 AM »

Anita is basically listing all the video games that have damsels in distress. How is listing games that have female heroes any less relevant?

Metroid is a long-running and prominent series.
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feminazi
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« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2013, 01:01:29 AM »

Anita is basically listing all the video games that have damsels in distress. How is listing games that have female heroes any less relevant?

Metroid is a long-running and prominent series.
because the trope is "damsels in distress" not "females aren't heroes"
listing metroid would be as relevant as listing halo

anyway here's the planned episodes and maybe people would quit being confused.
Quote from: kickstarter
With your help, I’ll produce a 5-video series (now expanded to 12 videos) entitled Tropes vs Women in Video Games, exploring female character stereotypes throughout the history of the gaming industry.  This ambitious project will primarily focus on these reoccurring tropes:

Damsel in Distress - Video #1
The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
1st Set of Stretch Goals Achieved!

Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress - Video #6
Women as Reward - Video #7
Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10
Positive Female Characters! - Video #11
2nd Stretch Goal Achieved!

Let's Bump up the Production Quality!
3rd Set of Stretch Goals Achieved!

Tropes vs Women in Video Games Classroom Curriculum
Video #12 - Top 10 Most Common Defenses of Sexism in Games
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SundownKid
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« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2013, 01:04:47 AM »

Let's say you had a game like Portal where Chell is "imprisoned" in the test chamber and she breaks out of it herself using her wits and guile, that would be directly relevant to the video where she mentions how the trope takes the power away from the female character. If the game was executed with that trope, it would have the Rat Man coming to free her before she died and help her take down her captor. So, I don't see how other games couldn't be relevant to what she said in the video, though Metroid wouldn't be relevant till later since there's no "prison" that I can remember.
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Derek
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« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2013, 01:24:03 AM »

Quote
The damsel in distress trope typically makes men the subject of narratives, while relegating women to the role of object. This is a form of objectification.

In Metroid, the subject of the narrative is a woman. Not relevant to the quote above?

Also, there are actually quite a few older titles where men are waiting to be saved. For example:







Anyway, I actually enjoyed the video and she seemed quite reasonable about the whole thing. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.

I just think a passing mention of Metroid would have helped her argument, that's all (EDIT: Or at the very least, given the defensive male nerds a reason to put their pitchforks down early on).
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2013, 01:35:29 AM »

i think the biggest issue with the video isn't the content but the presentation. it's very flat and uninteresting to watch. i'm not really a big fan of videos that have someone staring directly at the screen while talking to me.

would've liked it better if anita was actually not on-screen at all and there were more infographics or gameplay footage or stuff crammed in where she's just talking. alternatively, make her on-screen presence more "felt" since right now it's basically as a talking head. i know you can do better than just talking straight to the screen, anita! hit me with the good stuff.

definitely a video series worth having, don't get me wrong. was just a little let down. felt like a podcast with pictures more than a genuinely informative video. also, there was no need to explain the sax joke, it ruined the joke Sad
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feminazi
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« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2013, 01:48:15 AM »

Quote
The damsel in distress trope typically makes men the subject of narratives, while relegating women to the role of object. This is a form of objectification.

In Metroid, the subject of the narrative is a woman. Not relevant to the quote above?

sure if we look at that quote, subject/objectification doesn't define the trope, however.

Quote from: fem freq
As a trope the damsel in distress is a plot device in which a female character is placed in a perilous situation from which she cannot escape on her own and must be rescued by a male character, usually providing a core incentive or motivation for the protagonist’s quest.

semantics semantics... i'm mostly arguing this because you could literally list samus as a counterpoint to all the tropes that's covered by simply being a female player character. it's kinda sad.
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feminazi
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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2013, 01:50:46 AM »

i think the biggest issue with the video isn't the content but the presentation. it's very flat and uninteresting to watch. i'm not really a big fan of videos that have someone staring directly at the screen while talking to me.

would've liked it better if anita was actually not on-screen at all and there were more infographics or gameplay footage or stuff crammed in where she's just talking. alternatively, make her on-screen presence more "felt" since right now it's basically as a talking head. i know you can do better than just talking straight to the screen, anita! hit me with the good stuff.

definitely a video series worth having, don't get me wrong. was just a little let down. felt like a podcast with pictures more than a genuinely informative video. also, there was no need to explain the sax joke, it ruined the joke Sad
the biggest issue is her eyebrows
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2013, 02:16:00 AM »


VERY COOL AND MY BEST
FRIEND.

UNTIL WHAT TIME DO MCDONALDS
SERVE BREAKFAST? PLEASE
ADVISE. OVER AND OUT.
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Mittens
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« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2013, 03:02:45 AM »

Quote from: kickstarter
Damsel in Distress - Video #1
The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
1st Set of Stretch Goals Achieved!

Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress - Video #6
Women as Reward - Video #7
Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10
Positive Female Characters! - Video #11
2nd Stretch Goal Achieved!

Let's Bump up the Production Quality!
3rd Set of Stretch Goals Achieved!

Tropes vs Women in Video Games Classroom Curriculum
Video #12 - Top 10 Most Common Defenses of Sexism in Games

Sounds like this video series is just going to continue listing games that have sexism in them then.
Boring.
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feminazi
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« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2013, 03:43:27 AM »

you're boring.
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Core Xii
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« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2013, 03:45:56 AM »

I agree completely with everything she said. My eyes were rolling quite heavily most of the video and I wondered "is this actual footage?" often. Like that Nintendo ad... "will you get the girl? or will you play like one?" -> eyes tumble out of sockets.

However, I was quite disgusted at the disabled ratings and comments on YouTube. Very immature and insecure. She wants everybody to listen to her but doesn't one anyone else to speak. I understand that a video like this would probably invite misogynistic twats to insult her but that's just pretty much the Internet in a nutshell. If you get on it and make a statement, you don't pay mind to trolls.

Also if Samus is sexist my apologies, I've never played metroid but from what I hear you don't even realize that she's a girl until the end, you just think it's some absolute badass.

Well, there is the newer one... where she has all the powerups from the get go, but can't use them until her male superior authorizes her to.

the biggest issue is her eyebrows

This! I don't know what it is exactly.. It looks like she's used makeup lighter than her skin color around her eyebrows (and probably something else) and I found it incredibly distracting.
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Atnas
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« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2013, 04:36:54 AM »

i sort of dont see whats wrong with damsels in distress

I mean, if the main character is male, who are they going to care about the most? Their romantic interest, obviously. It's poor writing but it's only as sexist as men liking women is sexist.

And if we did get more female characters they wouldn't be saving men because rawr women must be independent and need no man. Yet somehow its a non-issue for all these male characters to REQUIRE the pursuit of a woman to justify their in-game existence though. Of course, it's assumed men only think about getting their dicks wet like animals, so why would anyone debate that, right?

video was sort of redundant, though i am very sad we never got dinosaur planet. I hadn't seen that footage.


edit: I was wondering if it would still be sexist if the hero intentionally shot the damsel immediately after the villain kidnapped her - It would solve the damsel induced sexism perhaps?
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Atnas
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« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2013, 05:01:52 AM »

i sort of dont see whats wrong with damsels in distress

I mean, if the main character is male, who are they going to care about the most? Their romantic interest, obviously. It's poor writing but it's only as sexist as men liking women is sexist.

And if we did get more female characters they wouldn't be saving men because rawr women must be independent and need no man. Yet somehow its a non-issue for all these male characters to REQUIRE the pursuit of a woman to justify their in-game existence though. Of course, it's assumed men only think about getting their dicks wet like animals, so why would anyone debate that, right?

I think you're missing the point, the problem has nothing to do with the chase itself, nor with the gender of the pursuer, but that by becoming the goal they are being made into objects to be acquired or retrieved, as the video pointed out numerous times.
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Atnas
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« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2013, 05:16:10 AM »

I think you're missing the point, the problem has nothing to do with the chase itself, nor with the gender of the pursuer, but that by becoming the goal they are being made into objects to be acquired or retrieved, as the video pointed out numerous times.

But people who are helpless and captured DO exist - I think if someone you cared about was captured you would find it your goal to rescue them (assuming you had the capabilities) I do not think that simply by writing an instance of a scenario which aligns with something that could be construed as sexist makes it inherently sexist.

Writers don't make damsels female because they intend women to become objects, they make damsels female because the protagonists are male and they choose to make abduction of a love interest the conflict within their story. The role of a powerless hostage is inherently goal based and there is no way around debasing the genderless damsel in distress unless you wish to depart from the trope itself and make it Damsel in... damsel who breaks free. In which case we can both agree a damsel in distress is a very stupid thing for the plot to hinge around.

inb4 us r dum
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