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1059425 Posts in 43076 Topics- by 35030 Members - Latest Member: statichead

October 31, 2014, 04:27:51 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesfemfreq tropes vs women is out
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Author Topic: femfreq tropes vs women is out  (Read 5751 times)
Mittens
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 07:55:13 PM »

I don't get who this video is for, all it does is recount things that everyone already knows, right?

I think maybe it's been intended to be shown to high-school students or something?
Still, I don't get why it exists - it's not going to make macho teenagers less like macho teenagers and it's not going to stop big business pumping out what masses of people have been demanding and buying for decades, so why?

If anything it seems to be appealing to small time developers to make a feminist game, but why would any small time developer make a game for someone else rather than fulfill their own grand visions for games?

If feminists want an especially women empowering game to be developed they'll have to get together and actually make it themselves, no one is going to develop a game for you because you asked on youtube
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feminazi
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2013, 08:13:12 PM »

read my faq
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2013, 08:15:12 PM »

Yeah that's my problem with it. It's preaching to the choir, essentially. I'm not sure how valid the "raise awareness" thing really is, because those who are receptive to these things are already aware. And perhaps a few people get the message that otherwise didn't, is it really going to make that much of a difference? Somehow I doubt it, at least in comparison to some of the more pro-active things she could do with her 'fame' and money she acquired through her campaign.

I feel the time and money would better be used making videos trying to attract females to games and the games industry. Fund events or get clubs running that try to interest females in programming and game creation. Or show the positive side of games, make it a point to showcase and applaud games that actively avoid stereotyping and gender tropes.

It seems like the above would do more to benefit games and the games industry other than moaning for 25 minutes straight about what's wrong with a few games.

If you compare the games of the last decade to games we have now, the games industry has came a long way. It still has far to go, but I don't think these videos are doing anything (or can do anything) in particular to advance that.
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Mittens
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2013, 08:17:08 PM »

Someone suggested an answer to my question, that the reason the video exists is -
To pay yourself lots of kickstarter money to do something you felt like doing regardless of if anyone want's it.

Sadly this is the only explanation making sense so far, but it asks a new question -
Who backed this and why?
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SundownKid
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2013, 08:23:13 PM »

I feel the time and money would better be used making videos trying to attract females to games and the games industry. Fund events or get clubs running that try to interest females in programming and game creation. Or show the positive side of games, make it a point to showcase and applaud games that actively avoid stereotyping and gender tropes.

This. The problem is that the video is mainly about Nintendo games, which aren't exactly the most progressive games in the world considering they have strayed very little from their retro roots. Perhaps this should have been a message to Nintendo of Japan rather than the gaming community as a whole.
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alastair
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2013, 08:30:21 PM »

Depends which series you select to look at, Pokemon lets the player choose a female or male character since Crystal version.
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feminazi
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2013, 08:31:47 PM »

Sadly this is the only explanation making sense so far, but it asks a new question -
Who backed this and why?
people who found her previous videos informative or entertaining, maybe.

Yeah that's my problem with it. It's preaching to the choir, essentially. I'm not sure how valid the "raise awareness" thing really is, because those who are receptive to these things are already aware. And perhaps a few people get the message that otherwise didn't, is it really going to make that much of a difference? Somehow I doubt it, at least in comparison to some of the more pro-active things she could do with her 'fame' and money she acquired through her campaign.
her kickstarter/videos got a bunch of gaming enthusiasts talking(raised awareness) and she's been giving talks at various game companies such as dice and bungie, so you're basically wrong.

Or show the positive side of games, make it a point to showcase and applaud games that actively avoid stereotyping and gender tropes.

what point? how's that any better at raising awareness? sounds like you just don't want to hear the negatives, sugar coating it so you don't have to talk about things.
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feminazi
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2013, 08:49:38 PM »

and extra creditz is garbage.  Big Laff
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2013, 09:05:19 PM »

Raising awareness is a wishy-washy door prize to any sort of real action.  All this video made me want to do is cling tighter to my copy of Sexual Personae. 
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Mittens
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2013, 09:10:43 PM »

I feel the time and money would better be used making videos trying to attract females to games and the games industry. Fund events or get clubs running that try to interest females in programming and game creation. Or show the positive side of games, make it a point to showcase and applaud games that actively avoid stereotyping and gender tropes.

Agreed, it could even have been used to pay a developer to make such a game, or used to make a new women empowering game studio
Anything is better than pointing out flaws and condemning past wrongs that can't be changed
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 09:29:39 PM by Jackson31 » Logged

Alec S.
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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 09:16:46 PM »

I feel the time and money would better be used making videos trying to attract females to games and the games industry. Fund events or get clubs running that try to interest females in programming and game creation. Or show the positive side of games, make it a point to showcase and applaud games that actively avoid stereotyping and gender tropes.

Agreed, it could even have been used to pay a developer to make such a game, or used to make a new women empowering game studio
Anything is better than pointing out flaws and condemning past wrong that can't be changed

I disagree, criticism, deconstruction and analysis are incredibly useful tools.  You might as well tell the Errant Signals "well, why don't you go out and make a game with ludo-narrative cohesion and responsible subtext instead of talking about what games do or don't do this".  It's building upon a dialogue of gender roles in games which I think is ultimately valuable, really just as any other form of game analysis is valuable.  The analysis could be deeper, but it's only the first episode, so I'm hoping it'll improve as it goes on.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2013, 09:20:41 PM »

Errant Signal wasn't given $160,000.
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Alec S.
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2013, 09:21:57 PM »

Yeah, I'm not sure why this needed a big kickstarter, but I'm glad it exists anyway.
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zanielyene
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2013, 09:45:20 PM »

you heard it here first

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feminazi
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2013, 09:50:40 PM »

>browses 4chan
>posts 4chan screen caps
>is fake gamer manbaby
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Derek
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2013, 09:59:46 PM »

I don't get the Big Bang Theory part. Explain?
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Landshark RAWR
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2013, 10:01:21 PM »

is "nerd blackface" and is popular with girlz
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SundownKid
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2013, 10:04:15 PM »

Depends which series you select to look at, Pokemon lets the player choose a female or male character since Crystal version.

In Pokemon, a female viewpoint doesn't make a big difference because there's barely any plot based on anything besides training and battling Pokemon. If you look at one of the console Pokemon games that DID have a larger plot, it has a male protagonist. Then you have the anime, with Ash, a male protagonist as well.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2013, 10:13:26 PM »

I disagree, criticism, deconstruction and analysis are incredibly useful tools.

No one said they weren't. What we did say is that we've already heard these arguments from many people over and over. The things she are saying are elementary. She's doing what people already have done, which is why me and others are suggesting alternatives of what people aren't doing but should.

She had fans and the opportunity to take what she and others have already said about these things, and spin it into something proactive rather then reactive. But, she's not. She's just saying the same old things.

Which isn't totally devoid of value, but the balance between people who do things and the people like her who are just saying things is completely fucked up.

Yes women have been portrayed in a not so positive light in the history of games. What  are you going to do about? Oh, you're going to make some videos repeating what everyone already has said. Well, okay. That is certainly her prerogative. Just not the course of action I would have taken if given the same opportunity and finances.
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Alec S.
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« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2013, 10:38:11 PM »

And this is only the first video, and it tackles a trope that, while fairly obvious, is also prevalent in enough games, particularly in some of Videogeme's cornerstones, that it seems a good jumping on point to discuss the issue of gender in games.  The video didn't seem particularly reactionary, but simply seemed to be building the conceit that certain common tropes prevalent in videogames are part of a culture of sexism.  For those who already accept that premise, hopefully the videos will go more in depth as they continue and highlight some positive examples (which she seemed to indicate she would be doing next episode).  For those who haven't really thought much about the topic, but are interested, the video seems like a fairly good introduction. 
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