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[Paul Eres]

It's not a world without money that is the bad idea. It's a word without *property*.

Imagine if you made something, say you built your house yourself. If there were no property rights, what's to stop 100 guys from forcing you out and taking over your home and "sharing" it with you? It's your house, you built it, so why should you have to share it with others if you don't want to?

The end of Zeitgeist: Addendum doesn't only promote a society with no money, it promotes a society with no property rights.

[Movius]

Thats the point. I would much prefer to live in a place without debt corruption and poverty, yet i cant. Because some people refuse to stop playing this game and start a new one. because they have invested too much of their lives in it for it all to count for 'nothing'.

the only things I've advocated are peace love and harmony. whats so wrong or absurd about a world without money?

Stopping 'corruption and poverty' is a fine thing, (though no doubt you have a perverse definition of these things,) but i'm not sure quite how you achieve this by stealing from people and prohibiting peaceful interaction. Come to think of it, this doesn't sound much like "peace love and harmony" either.

If you want to live by your enchanted wonder-rules of mystery, then by all means go ahead. Just don't be surprised if the many sane individuals in the world prefer not to join in because they prefer things like food, clothes and running water.

[skrew]

I don't think I will truly ever understand why you are so determined to shoot down the ideas I'm presenting Movius. But It's weird because maybe you just think im regurgitating a lot of what is said in movies like zeitgeist and the corporation. But thats not true, I was coming to the same conclusions through the experiences I've had, that places I've been to and a lot of the people I've spoken too. Granted some of those people are really passionate about change and are what you'd probably consider hippies if you saw them on the street. It's just that those movies put a lot of that into a more concrete and concise perspective, not exactly like my own, but close enough to relate to.

I'd be more than happy with the way things are now if there wasn't so much anger and hardship and just blatant rape of the worlds resources caused by this system. Maybe it is a severe case of apophenia and I'm making connections that really aren't there. Maybe people really do have predispositions for greed and violence. Personally, I feel I am most definitely who I am because of my experiences, and the only predispositions I have had are family, physical appearance, base mental capacity, and the 'class' my parents had brought me into. Maybe the way we live now is truly the only way we can live and that those that suggest something different are just dreaming.

[Movius]

Apophenia with a generous slice of confirmation bias, some fallacy of the excluded middle and a pinch of proof by verbosity and non-sequitur.

Putting aside the fact you make no sense. Here are 2 Xbox size issues:

1) you split the world into two groups "poor innocent oppressed lower classes" and "RICH POWERFUL KKKORPORATIONS WHO RULE EVERYTHING" completely ignoring the vast majority of people who don't fit into either group. What of the many people of various levels of success in life and who conduct themselves peacefully and ethically, but just want to be left alone to the wonders of their material wealth?

2) How do you plan to both initiate and maintain this supposed wonderworld without using force. It's fine if you voluntarily waste away in the corner without hurting others, but I can't see why you would want that.

[skrew]

2) How do you plan to both initiate and maintain this supposed wonderworld without using force. It's fine if you voluntarily waste away in the corner without hurting others, but I can't see why you would want that.

Are you saying that violence is  a necessity in daily life?

[Paul Eres]

No, but violence is necessary in order to enforce shared resources.

[Movius]

2) How do you plan to both initiate and maintain this supposed wonderworld without using force. It's fine if you voluntarily waste away in the corner without hurting others, but I can't see why you would want that.

Are you saying that violence is  a necessity in daily life?

No, exactly the opposite.

I'm saying that your proposals are all impossible without violence. Therefore you endorse morally bankrupt positions.

[Gnarf]

"RICH POWERFUL KKKORPORATIONS WHO RULE EVERYTHING"

I think this is a very good point. The caps and the putting it in quotes thing lead me to believe that skrew's portrayal of corporations is unfair.

If you want to live by your enchanted wonder-rules of mystery, then by all means go ahead. Just don't be surprised if the many sane individuals in the world prefer not to join in because they prefer things like food, clothes and running water.

Not only are the rules we currently live by real tangible things rather than random nonsense we made up as we went. They also dealt with the whole hunger situation