Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411283 Posts in 69325 Topics- by 58380 Members - Latest Member: bob1029

March 29, 2024, 04:40:57 AM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe polite answer to "you play all the day"
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Print
Author Topic: The polite answer to "you play all the day"  (Read 5052 times)
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 05:18:04 PM »

why would an indie game developer need friends
Logged

Blademasterbobo
Level 10
*****


dum


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 07:13:27 PM »

why would an indie game developer need friends

this is one of the saddest posts paul eres has ever made
Logged

Hand Point Left Hand Shake Left Hand Thumbs Down Left Hand Thumbs Up Left Bro Fist Left Hand Metal Left Toast Left Hand Fork Left Hand Money Left Hand Clap Hand Any Key Tiger Hand Joystick Hand Pencil Hand Money Right Hand Knife Right Toast Right Hand Metal Right Bro Fist Right Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Down Right Hand Shake Right Hand Point Right
Leon Fook
Level 5
*****


Ohh hi, or something like that.


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 09:45:35 PM »

why would an indie game developer need friends
Probably quoted what Tommy Refenes said in Indie Games the Movie.
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 10:52:47 PM »

like i let out a Hearty Cartoon Man Chuckle at that post. thank u.
Your point is? Stress can be a good thing.
Logged

Master of all trades.
ThemsAllTook
Administrator
Level 10
******



View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 11:02:47 PM »

like i let out a Hearty Cartoon Man Chuckle at that post. thank u.
Your point is? Stress can be a good thing.

I think the point is that it's really hard to take your post seriously when you refer to "real jobs" as something which excludes game development, imply that writing a game doesn't involve stress and hard work, and that there's no goal (like, say, shipping a game?).
Logged

GhostBomb
Level 4
****



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 01:10:37 AM »

Because working well into the night trying to meet deadlines and not knowing whether other not people will give a crap about your very lively-hood isn't very stressful.

It's all sunshine and rainbows in game dev land.
Logged

Current Projects:

UnEarth


Azure
motorherp
Level 3
***



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2013, 02:08:17 AM »

I'm usually quite content to just let people think all I do is play games all day if that's what they want to think.  It just makes them envy my job even more, especially since I'm usualy bringing home a bigger bread cheque than those people Cheesy
Logged
eigenbom
Level 10
*****


@eigenbom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2013, 03:42:56 AM »

Welcome to gamedev, it's an unserious business  Wink
Logged

gggfhfdh
Level 9
****



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2013, 05:51:47 AM »

I think the point is that it's really hard to take your post seriously when you refer to "real jobs" as something which excludes game development, imply that writing a game doesn't involve stress and hard work, and that there's no goal (like, say, shipping a game?).
bingo

e: the same could be said for any sort of freelance work though, just because you have a Fucked Up White Dude mindset that anything outside of an office job isn't a real job doesn't mean it doesn't come with a certain level of stress

also something something capitalism blah blah im still not finished with my coffee yet
Logged
PowRTocH
Guest
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2013, 06:28:41 AM »

Dr. Joe

Joe

Calling Dr. Joe
Logged
starsrift
Level 10
*****


Apparently I am a ruiner of worlds. Ooops.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 06:41:45 AM »

I'm usually quite content to just let people think all I do is play games all day if that's what they want to think.  It just makes them envy my job even more, especially since I'm usualy bringing home a bigger bread cheque than those people Cheesy

GIS for "big bread" turned up this result as the first one. It... fits so unbelievably well for your comment.

Logged

"Vigorous writing is concise." - William Strunk, Jr.
As is coding.

I take life with a grain of salt.
And a slice of lime, plus a shot of tequila.
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 10:47:49 AM »

I didn't say game development isn't a real profession.
Let me refine what I ment...
INDIE game developers can find ways of making money with little effort or even semi con artist methods.
It's not that there arn't such things at other fields. It's the usual business guy that find ways to make money and get ahead with little work.
Or in other words "That ain't working, that's the way you do it".

I get the feeling that the succesful indies don't really work hard. they might work hard but there is usually little correlation between how sucessful they can be and how much effort they need to put.
Kickstarter is a good example of people getting tens of thousands of dollars for one month work of a few concept art and a video.
Other indies just give talks, have their own channels with millions of fans and leverage other peoples' work by selling their games in a bundle.

So, what I am saying, it's not that there arn't indies who work hard for a living. It's just that there isn't correlation between how hard you need to work and how succesful you can be.
Networking and other smart moves will get you a lot further ahead rather than working hard on a really good and well polished, bug free game.

Edit: as already was mentioned, making a good game is not enough. You need to also be a shrewd business man even more than you need to make a good game.
Logged

Master of all trades.
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2013, 11:08:50 AM »

i think that's both true and fase

first, it is true that a lot of indies that use kickstarter are con artists -- often not even intentionally, just unintentionally

but, successful indies who do *not* use kickstarter tend to work hard -- if you take a look at the best-selling indie games (world of goo, super meat boy, aquaria, minecraft, amnesia, or whatever others you could name) it's clear that a lot of hard work went into them. no indie game with over a million sales had only a little effort put into it, they often have a huge amount of effort put into it, often many years of 10-hour work days, 7 days a week

also, most unsuccessful indies do not work hard. what's the most common type of person on indie game forums, such as tigsource? someone who has never finished a game, or only finished a few small 15 minute games for contests. indies who actually work on, and finish, real games (games with content -- a title screen, an ending, levels, at least a few hours or more of gameplay), are very rare

but it IS true that not everyone in that latter category (indies who make and finish games is successful. however, they have a heck of a lot of a better chance of becoming successful than most of the other type of indies who never finish games, endlessly tweak engines, start and stop a million projects, and maybe release a contest game once in a while

so to make a chart, it works like this (NOTE: by successful here i mean "rich" or "making a living" at it):

category A: successful indies who work hard (e.g. edmund)
category B: successful indies who do not work hard (e.g. kickstarter con artists)
category C: unsuccessful indies who work hard (e.g. konjak)
category D: unsuccessful indies who do not work hard (the average tigsource user)

you have to consider all 4 categories. of those, if i had to give them a percent of how common they are, it'd work like this:

A: 5%
B: 1%
C: 20%
D: 74%

so basically, i think only about 1/4 of all indies work hard, and of those that work hard, 1/5th of those are successful. 3/4 of indies do not work hard, and of those, only 1/100 are successful

so in other words, if my estimates are accurate, working hard improves your chances of success from 1% to 20%, but success is never guaranteed
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2013, 11:33:23 AM »

Edmund is wokring hard? Didn't he hacked out Issac in like 6 months and shipped it full of bugs?
The wolfire guys didn't even ever complete Overgrowth.
Notch is not working anymore, he has people work for him and make his games. I am not sure how hard he worked on Minecraft eventhough it took long enough.
World of goo guys make a game like once in a very long while no?

I didn't say they don't invest a lot of hours in their games, they just don't work hard like most ordinary porductive members of society do.

And to the idiot who said most white people believe in an ordinary job, you mad bro?
Logged

Master of all trades.
gggfhfdh
Level 9
****



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2013, 12:03:19 PM »

they just don't work hard like most ordinary porductive members of society do.
you keep saying that and its making me wonder if you've ever actually functioned on this planet outside of the safety net your parents built for you

basing someone's worth on their 'productivity' is bourgie bullshit
like the implicit statement with associating productivity w/ worth other than of course fuckin plutocracy is
it throws people who can't be 'productive' and people who do important work thats not assigned 'value' under the bus

Logged
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2013, 12:21:54 PM »

By being productive I ment spending time in doing something that contribute directly.
It doesn't have to be engineers, it can be a construction worker, a cashier, a waitress. These are all people who contribute REAL work.
If you have other people work for you while you go to convention and sell other peoples' games and take a cut, you arn't really productive.
If someone is cripple or don't have many options to work then I don't blame them much. But almost anyone can get a job at McDonalds and I would appreaciate more someone who works at McDonalds than someone who decides not to work because McDonalds is not good enough for him, or someone who don't work because he can have others work for him and still make money.
Logged

Master of all trades.
Moczan
Guest
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2013, 12:28:51 PM »

So you actually say that Notch should get a job at McDonalds, since he no longer directly writes code for Minecraft?  Cheesy
Logged
ThemsAllTook
Administrator
Level 10
******



View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2013, 12:37:59 PM »

Edmund is wokring hard? Didn't he hacked out Issac in like 6 months and shipped it full of bugs?

Edmund doesn't do programming as far as I know. The Binding of Isaac was written by Florian Himsl, with Edmund doing art and design.

The wolfire guys didn't even ever complete Overgrowth.

They're still working on it.

Notch is not working anymore, he has people work for him and make his games. I am not sure how hard he worked on Minecraft eventhough it took long enough.

Notch is currently working on 0x10c. If you look at how quickly Minecraft went from concept to playable game, it's clear that he worked very hard on it.

World of goo guys make a game like once in a very long while no?

Don't know too much about this one, but keep in mind that both Ron and Kyle are founding members of Indie Fund. I get the impression that it keeps them pretty busy. I sat next to Ron once at a GDC session, and he was preoccupied the entire time by responding to e-mails and didn't seem to even have a moment to spare to pay attention to the session itself. (That's a pretty weak extrapolation, but it's all I have; I'm not as familiar with 2D Boy as the other developers you referenced.)

If you have other people work for you while you go to convention and sell other peoples' games and take a cut, you arn't really productive.

Who are you talking about here? What you're describing definitely isn't a game developer.

By being productive I ment spending time in doing something that contribute directly.
It doesn't have to be engineers, it can be a construction worker, a cashier, a waitress. These are all people who contribute REAL work.

I don't know why you're making value judgements that place service jobs above creating entertainment when you're posting on a game development forum. Is this some sort of self-loathing? I'm not going to engage in a discussion about which is more valuable to society, but there's some definite cognitive dissonance going on here.
Logged

ink.inc
Guest
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2013, 02:14:04 PM »

i hate myself and everyone around me

we will all die alone and unloved
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2013, 05:30:47 PM »

finishing any game, no matter how full of bugs, is very difficult and time-consuming. it takes far more work and requires far more skill and technical training to make a terrible, bad, buggy game than it does to flip burgers or to sit in an office job. besides, as others mentioned, the bugs weren't edmund's fault. he did the design and the art, not the programming

there are certainly professions that require more work than indie game developer. for instance, to be a doctor or a teacher or a nurse usually requires more work than to be an indie game developer. but there are also professions that require less work. gas station attendant, for example.

but thing is that usually indie game developers do far more work than anyone in the AAA game industry, because they have to do so many different things, and get good at those things. they need to know about programming, art production, art direction, music, sound, mechanics design, level design, management, production, direction, marketing, budgeting, sales, business, accounting, customer service, and many other things; in the industry you just do one thing and that's it

also, it is true that indies aren't paid 'by the hour' so that may lead to the impression that they don't "work", but that's misleading. indies are business owners. they run a business, they profit from the business's sales. but saying an indie doesn't work is like saying the owner of your company doesn't work. they just have a different kind of work than following orders
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic