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999689 Posts in 39241 Topics- by 30651 Members - Latest Member: Deathassassin05

April 24, 2014, 05:32:34 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe polite answer to "you play all the day"
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Author Topic: The polite answer to "you play all the day"  (Read 2616 times)
Conker
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« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2013, 06:52:32 PM »

i make prototypes all day

i am tigsource
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2013, 07:07:06 PM »

pompipompi youre dumb
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2013, 07:44:36 PM »


category A: successful indies who work hard (e.g. edmund)
category B: successful indies who do not work hard (e.g. kickstarter con artists)
category C: unsuccessful indies who work hard (e.g. konjak)
category D: unsuccessful indies who do not work hard (the average tigsource user)


Konjak is C?  Didn't Noitu Love 2 do well?

Also one day I will break the binding chains of category D and ascend to category D+
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« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2013, 08:21:01 PM »

i don't know how well noitu love 2 did after getting on steam. however, for a long time, it wasn't on steam and from what he said once on this forum didn't sell all that well. popularity on tigsource isn't a good measure of popularity elsewhere, games that tigsource goes crazy over can be unknown elsewhere

but he was just the first example that came to mind that was also moderately well-known, so it isn't really that important if that particular example is true or not, there are definitely a lot of indies who work hard and yet don't get many sales. another example would be the guy who made the spirit engine 2. the spirit engine 2 was a pretty superb rpg, but it sold so poorly and was such a disappointment sales-wise that he gave up indie games and make it freeware
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« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2013, 10:48:21 PM »

Ya, The Spirit Engine series was fantastic was hoping he'd keep making more.
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2013, 11:01:21 PM »

You are confusing between the overall time that needs to be invested in the project and the productivity.
The same project can take you 1 year to complete or 2 years to complete. It partly depends how hard you work.
When it takes Wolfire 5 years to complete a game they definitely don't work that hard on it.

Minecraft had tons of missing features, there was a time Notch didn't add much to it for ages. He then got other people to work on it and then it might have advanced faster.

I didn't say service jobs are more valued than game development. I said a waitress work harder than most indie developers. It doesn't matter what is the product produced or the service.
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2013, 11:07:31 PM »

Just show them what content you produce, don't be afraid to slightly show off to the sake of them respecting you. People will respect you if you prove that you produce quality art, programming or games altogether. Games are a new form of entertainment that some people don't yet understand completely because they didn't grow up with them.
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2013, 11:19:18 PM »

You are confusing between the overall time that needs to be invested in the project and the productivity.
The same project can take you 1 year to complete or 2 years to complete. It partly depends how hard you work.
When it takes Wolfire 5 years to complete a game they definitely don't work that hard on it.

Minecraft had tons of missing features, there was a time Notch didn't add much to it for ages. He then got other people to work on it and then it might have advanced faster.

there's a lot of factors that go into how fast people make games, though:

beginners tend to be slower; it takes beginners longer to figure out how to code stuff. a beginner and an expert both working equally hard will finish games in much different times

team size is also very important; large teams finish games faster. pixel took 5 years to make cave story largely because he was working alone. if he had a team of 10 or even 5, the game might only have taken a year to make

the type of game and the amount of content also matter: games with a lot of assets to create for them (such as rpgs) take longer than games with fewer assets. a game that takes the player 40 hours to complete takes longer to make than a game that takes 4 hours to complete

so basically i think it's strange to say that games that take a long time mean that someone isn't working hard, because there's all kinds of complicating factors that can explain why a game takes a long time: the person can be a beginner and figuring stuff out as they go along, the game can be a really big RPG, and they can be working alone, or all three

a general rule that i've found is true is that for every 1 hour of gameplay, expect to work 100 hours on the game. so if you want to make a game that's 20 hours long, you need to work 2000 hours to create it (this amount can be divided up by a team, though). this is also assuming an 'experienced' skill level. one hour of work for an experienced game developer is worth about 3 to 5 for a beginner
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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2013, 04:13:44 AM »

One thing that bugs me is...Pompi, by now i believe you should have know how long it should take to make one refined, polished game. But why now you're the one that confused on that?

You see, what you trying to present here is two point:
1)
Quote
You are confusing between the overall time that needs to be invested in the project and the productivity.
The same project can take you 1 year to complete or 2 years to complete. It partly depends how hard you work.
When it takes Wolfire 5 years to complete a game they definitely don't work that hard on it.
2)
Quote
Edmund is wokring hard? Didn't he hacked out Issac in like 6 months and shipped it full of bugs?

So to sum it up what you say,
1) Dev time too long, didn't work hard enough
2) Dev time too short, didn't work hard enough

Let me try break down on what you said for the last few post:
Quote
INDIE game developers can find ways of making money with little effort or even semi con artist methods.
Make money, yes. Became very successful with that? No. You make 50 buck out of your ripped off project, you make money. You make 2 buck by cheating people with your game that got taken down later, you still make money.

The same project can take you 1 year to complete or 2 years to complete. It partly depends how hard you work....
I didn't say service jobs are more valued than game development. I said a waitress work harder than most indie developers. It doesn't matter what is the product produced or the service.
I bet you already became very confused with "working hard" and "productivity". You're right for saying a waitress work harder than us, as "working hard" & "working productively" is completely different stuff. We are not working hard, we're working productively. We pump out new content every now and then for people to buy and enjoy. That's "working productively". A waitress or other "productive member of society", AKA "real job", works hard, when they do the same stuff again and again and again, and doing what they're assign with. Mopping the restaurant's floor every time the shop open and close, that's work hard. Model 3 3D model in the morning without stopping and chat, working hard. Doing every stuff your boss assign you within the time period, working hard. A China clone of Luftrauser, working hard.

To get back to what you say most successful developer don't work hard, yes, they don't, while they just sit there, blank out for awhile, come back then doodle some stuff onto the paper, as this is the process they have to went through for quite some time. Working for a boss don't require you to think, you just do what they told you. They wan a new sprite? Just work hard to produce of what they wan.

(Okay, i have nothing against 3D modeler, your stuff are kool.)
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« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2013, 02:46:28 AM »

Leonelc29, you are just proving my point.
First of all, Productivity also refers to giving service. I know that productivity and producing and product are all spelled simillary, but they are different words. I suggest you search the dictionary for them before you feel like you are a smart person.

You just admitting that indie game developers are lazy bums who found ways to sell their doodles for wads of money because of all the rabid fanatic fans of them are willing to pay whatever they will sell them.
And you did a good job at making any other job on the planet except indie game development sound like a tedious mindless zombie jobs of people who have no creativity or only obey their boss. I guess you never held a job a single day in your life.
Even a worker at McDonalds can have creative solutions to problems and customers' desire. The difference that with games the game developer can feed whatever shit he wants into the mouth of his fans, he can be lazy about it and doodle some crap because he is too lazy but his fans wouldn't be able to tell that he didn't really put much effort in it, because there are a lot of crappy games out there.

You are having the sympthoms of size comparission. You can't yourself bigger so you try to make everyone around you smaller.
Being an indie game developer is not the most creative, amazing, difficult, smart people work in the world. It might be the work where you can cut as much corners as you want because you decide what the product will be and most succesful indie developers design their product around profitability and not around other things.

Notice that productivity is the rate and quality at which things are produced. So if I say  Issac was full of bugs, I refer to the low quality of the game, and hence the low productivty.
If I refer to Overgrowth long development time, I refer to the slow pace at which the game advance.
Both have low productivty, one took a short time and one took a long time. HOW DAT POSSIBLE? Use your super creative, amazing, no other non game developer human can possibly have brain to figure this out.
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« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2013, 02:55:04 AM »

you should take a break from the internet for a bit pompi
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« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2013, 03:42:30 AM »

you should take a break from the internet for a bit pompi

No, not in the middle of a fight for the 'King of bullshit' crown versus J-Snake  No No NO
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2013, 04:49:24 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4goUqiOL44
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« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2013, 06:31:48 AM »

on the other hand, http://youtu.be/-m2fVWj99x4
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Leon Fook
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« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2013, 07:12:47 AM »

You just admitting that indie game developers are lazy bums who found ways to sell their doodles for wads of money because of all the rabid fanatic fans of them are willing to pay whatever they will sell them.
lol, wut. You're mistaken on "being lazy" and "working hard" are just 0 and 1. I believe you're also an indie game developer, one way or another, and the fact that you willingly admit that indie developer are fucking lazy makes me think that you hate your current job.

And you did a good job at making any other job on the planet except indie game development sound like a tedious mindless zombie jobs of people who have no creativity or only obey their boss. I guess you never held a job a single day in your life.
Even a worker at McDonalds can have creative solutions to problems and customers' desire. The difference that with games the game developer can feed whatever shit he wants into the mouth of his fans, he can be lazy about it and doodle some crap because he is too lazy but his fans wouldn't be able to tell that he didn't really put much effort in it, because there are a lot of crappy games out there.
First of all, i'm only using example to explain that. Second, I never said that all job except indie dev are mindless zombie with no creativity or what so ever that you think. Third, i did use an example of a cloned game, so i'm not saying indie dev are all smart people. And fourth, yes, the worker at McD can have creative solution on solving some problem, but they most likely have no creative input on what ever they do. You kinda use the bad example to strike me with that. And lastly, let's face it, if you're lazy and didn't put effort into your game, you won't get any fans. If you think you make some unpolished shit and people will buy it, you're in the wrong era.

To clarify further, i didn't mean that when you work hard, you can't be smart and put creativity and innovation into your work. Work hard doesn't mean brain dead, work hard means you do a lot of work, unless you decide it is. Another thing to clarify on this is, what i said about game dev is that particular process, the ideation, and not the entire dev work. You not gonna sell your doodle on the paper(idea, part of it), without working on the game itself(execution).

You are having the sympthoms of size comparission. You can't yourself bigger so you try to make everyone around you smaller.
You probably read the wrong post. Or maybe you read your own post? I dunno.

Being an indie game developer is not the most creative, amazing, difficult, smart people work in the world.
I didn't even say it is. You're probably imagining it.

It might be the work where you can cut as much corners as you want because you decide what the product will be and most succesful indie developers design their product around profitability and not around other things.
Which industry doesn't cut corners to get the result as cheap/fast as possible? No one want to work on something forever just to have a "perfect" product. And for the profitable part, you are right actually. When you have something on your mind that you wanna sell, you would make it as accessible as possible for the consumer. To survive in the industry, you would wanna build a sustainable company, and make a profitable and good project so you and your company can survive.

And for the rest of it(the grammar error and misunderstanding of the word "productivity", and the fact that you keep insulting me), fucking whatever. I admit that i used a lot of wrong word and express in wrong word, but that doesn't mean you can't ask for clarification and strait goes into insult mode.
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