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1037276 Posts in 41900 Topics- by 33505 Members - Latest Member: Kirstenburkhart

August 29, 2014, 10:23:59 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe polite answer to "you play all the day"
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Author Topic: The polite answer to "you play all the day"  (Read 2772 times)
Leon Fook
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« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2013, 11:39:12 AM »

About the gun modeler, someone in the industry once told me that it's easier to model an entirely new thing rather than make modification to it. Gamer are picky these day.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2013, 11:40:19 AM »

Okay forget tomb raider, i could have said unchartred when it was introduced, last of us or beyond two souls. Btw sky is a backdrop and even that there is still lot of care put in. And gun give you gameplay info and has some immersive quality (sound, animation) which are regularly praised, so it's not "that" meaningless.

however on tomb raider straight from the inside:
Quote
Thanks guys as for the textures it is random as hell. I admit to use crazybump, Ndo, zbrush, maya, and x-normal(baking) I was being pretty experimental at times also and trying to do alot of stuff using 3D shaders in Maya rendered out using displacement. The lower Cobblestone texture was mostly procedural textures on roundish lumps of stone placed randomly on the grid in maya than the shader would displace and get all those cracks and deformations than baked out all the passes in maya and put it all together in photoshop. We did not have a whole lot of time to make textures in this game, We relied heavily on mixing textures together to get a surface quality vs putting all the info into a few textures.

The best way would be a process like Naughty Dog where you have dedicated texture artist to really sculpt out the fine details and express depth and form from the modeled shapes the Environment artist does.

I did see Tate's and Beh's a bit later in the process of Tomb Raider and it helped to clean up my workflow a good bit. I wish we had more time to zbrush. But every artist at Crystal was all roles, we were all responsible for Modeling, texturing, Lighting, and even Scripting to some extent. The whole Envio art team at the peak was 14 artists. I would say this team was the most versatile team I have been on. ND has far more Artists... not even sure how many I would have to really do a head count

www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119045

Yeah just env artist Tongue

also: BrownMasterBobo
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2013, 01:39:25 PM »

Leonlc, err, you started with the "You are getting confused by words" and etc. Let's agree to not insult each other. Smiley

Anyway, of course you can cut corners in every industry, but it's easier to do so in games. Because the end user does not know what the game suppose to contain until he plays it to completion.
If Apple is making a new phone, every little feature of the phone is inspected by the consumer before it's bought. Some features are also vital for a phone or vital to upgrade from previous phones. You can't sell an iPhone 2 inside an iPhone 5 box(although some people bought bricks inside Apple boxes).

With a game, you can cut as many corners as you like, your 50 levels game can be shortened to 10 levels game. The user will not complain because he didn't know the game was originally  meant to have 50 levels.
Things like splitting games into episodes are common in the game industry and with indies as well.
A game is one of the few products that the user don't know what he is buying until he plays it.
Of course there are reviews and etc, but you usually can't really tell what is that you are buying until you actually start playing it.

Maybe that is one of the reasons users like to buy sequels from AAA companies, because then they buy something they are familiar with.


About the work that people do in the industry. I believe they try to be efficient as much as possible. They probably use "tricks" to shorten their production time.
For instance the characters in Assassin creed that have details up to the finger prints and the folds in the skin.
They take finger prints pictures from real photos and use that for displacement maps. They don't actually draw the finger prints.

And graphics do sell games. So does IP and many other things not directly related to gameplay and how fun the game will be.
But... that applies to indies as well.
Indie games sell thanks to networking, gimmicks, visuals(pretty visuals don't mean they have to be next gen 3D) and all the other tricks the industry use to sell games as well.
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« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2013, 02:04:39 PM »

why'd you ignore all of paul's posts
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« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2013, 02:28:10 PM »

Let's agree to not insult each other. Smiley
being calm and peaceful doesnt get you anywhere
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Leon Fook
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« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2013, 01:48:01 AM »

Anyway, of course you can cut corners in every industry, but it's easier to do so in games. Because the end user does not know what the game suppose to contain until he plays it to completion.
If Apple is making a new phone, every little feature of the phone is inspected by the consumer before it's bought. Some features are also vital for a phone or vital to upgrade from previous phones. You can't sell an iPhone 2 inside an iPhone 5 box(although some people bought bricks inside Apple boxes).

With a game, you can cut as many corners as you like, your 50 levels game can be shortened to 10 levels game. The user will not complain because he didn't know the game was originally  meant to have 50 levels.
Things like splitting games into episodes are common in the game industry and with indies as well.
A game is one of the few products that the user don't know what he is buying until he plays it.
Of course there are reviews and etc, but you usually can't really tell what is that you are buying until you actually start playing it.
Well, you wouldn't actually know how the first iPhone suppose to have. You wouldn't know how many feature they cut out, how many hardware they change. The same thing goes with game. You can't sell iPhone 5 with the first iPhone inside the case, and you can't sell Final Fantasy 12 with Final Fantasy 1 inside the case(except you're EA Sport)

Feature cut exists in every corner in creative industry, and none of them is neither easy nor hard. And like game, every corner cutting in the industry will go unnoticed if you don't have any benchmark for them to measure. We won't know the missing feature of Meat Boy, but we will notice the missing feature of Super Meat Boy, as Meat Boy are the benchmark for us to gauge it. Same goes to phone, OS, film, or even book.

For example, Walking Dead is getting boring and boring in the latest episode and people notice that, because they have season 1 as a benchmark to measure that. But if you shuffle up the season and start watching from season 3 to 1, you won't think season 3 is bad. As for the feature cut, they cut out the thing about "walker is dangerous" and "human VS walker". I'm not so familiar with film industry, but i know they cut stuff as much as game and goes unnoticed.
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ANtY
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« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2013, 02:29:25 AM »

Never had that happen to me.
my parents keep telling me this :/
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« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2013, 02:54:17 AM »


vs.


I think cultural workers have problems to be accepted since the beginning of mankind. Does anybody really think the cultural output of our modern society would be that high if only the successful ones would be allowed to do their job?

Creating cultural products is very risky, as a cultural worker you have to live with this risk. The job might be more fun to you than other jobs, but especially as independent artist you take huge risks. This is the price you pay. This is why many indies have a "normal" job too.

As an artist you push culture forward, be proud of it. You may hit the jackpot, this is what we wish for, but most indies won't hit the jackpot and push culture forward for free. Either way you do literally invaluable work for our society.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 03:22:56 AM by Chromanoid » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2013, 08:27:36 AM »

I will point that the same tales in japan has a very different ending (the ants and the cicada)
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2013, 09:14:00 AM »

I think the earliest passed down versions have an open end where the ant basically tells the grasshopper that the ones who work hard don't suffer from hunger. I was shocked when I found out that this "hardcore" version of the fable on "bbc school radio" (the grasshopper is associated with beat boxing/hip hop culture and dies at the end) is meant for primary school pupils.

How is the fable told in japan? I think they also base on Aesop? I just read here that there is a rewritten version by a popular japanese author.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 09:55:17 AM by Chromanoid » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2013, 01:03:53 PM »

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q_v84iVP96YC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=ants+and+the+cicada+japanese&source=bl&ots=PhM_9yJ-0A&sig=nEmoZh4mTJwIxDET5TcrI59FOnY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-N5hUf3uHI3a8wTfzYGgAQ&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=ants%20and%20the%20cicada%20japanese&f=false

there is my source, might not be the definite source at all
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2013, 01:14:01 PM »

Thank you, obviously I like the Japanese version much more.
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« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2013, 10:41:11 PM »

brrrrrown shooter

A Peter Gabriel parody.

Let's agree to not insult each other. Smiley
being calm and peaceful doesnt get you anywhere

Look at Israel.
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