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998170 Posts in 39143 Topics- by 30553 Members - Latest Member: drako30

April 17, 2014, 10:44:26 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreative (Moderator: John Sandoval)I just posted this on r/gaming, they told me to come here
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Author Topic: I just posted this on r/gaming, they told me to come here  (Read 2950 times)
VortexCortex
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 10:19:53 PM »

As a Kickstarter I wouldn't drop one red cent.  Not until you have a prototype of SOMETHING playable.  It's so easy to get a few coloured squares moving around that it's silly to ask for funding without at least that.

So, you're on the right track either learning to do a bit of coding / or finding someone who can right away.  I mean, it's the gameplay that counts so how else can you even tell if the game ideas are even going to be fun without a prototype?

You might also enjoy this: No one Cares About Your Cool Game Idea

Quote
Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute. That awesome game idea you have, the one that’s going to “change everything”, the one that you’re going to sell for a million dollars, the one that no one has come up with yet… frankly, no one gives a shit. Harsh, but then, the truth is not pleasant; it is just that, the truth.

Note that bit about executing.
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Archibald
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 11:09:14 AM »

No one Cares About Your Cool Game Idea
Except when your idea got 3000 up votes in Reddit in less than 24 hours Smiley It changes the traditional rules of development.
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Konidias
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2013, 11:33:53 AM »

As a Kickstarter I wouldn't drop one red cent.  Not until you have a prototype of SOMETHING playable.  It's so easy to get a few coloured squares moving around that it's silly to ask for funding without at least that.

So, you're on the right track either learning to do a bit of coding / or finding someone who can right away.  I mean, it's the gameplay that counts so how else can you even tell if the game ideas are even going to be fun without a prototype?

You might also enjoy this: No one Cares About Your Cool Game Idea

Quote
Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute. That awesome game idea you have, the one that’s going to “change everything”, the one that you’re going to sell for a million dollars, the one that no one has come up with yet… frankly, no one gives a shit. Harsh, but then, the truth is not pleasant; it is just that, the truth.

Note that bit about executing.
I wanted to point out that the article you linked was created in 2011, before Kickstarting games was really the "thing to do". (yes Kickstarter existed then, but it wasn't as widely known as it is now)

There are many games on Kickstarter that have been funded without a demo or prototype. Though these typically have people who have been involved in game projects before. It all depends on the presentation and what you can bring to the table.

I'm not saying everyone has great ideas that will get kickstarted for thousands of dollars, but the notion of "your idea is worthless" is becoming less black and white. There was more truth to this back in the day when all you had was an idea and you were trying to pitch that to programmers/artists to help create the idea for nothing. But with kickstarter, you could potentially lure in a big crowd on nothing but an idea and some concept artwork. Then you get the funding, then you hire the team. Yeah it seems a bit backwards and not the best way to go about game development, but for people like the OP who have nice concept art and ideas, the only other option is to fund everything yourself or spend years learning to program or use game makers.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no harm in attempting the Kickstarter route first. If it fails, then move on to another method. (learning game maker or saving up money to pay for a programmer, etc)

At least with Kickstarter he can get a general idea of who is interested... he can get feedback on his concepts. He can possibly even find people interested in working on the project.

There's always a little room for the possibility to be wrong about something. I dislike when people post things as if they have sage advice on a subject, like they cannot possibly be wrong and going against what they say would be a fool's errand. Speaking of opinions as facts never ends well for anyone, and only leads people to confine themselves to another person's opinion, as you have done after reading that article. Now you think that all ideas are worthless, even though that isn't really a fact.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2013, 09:34:46 AM »

I would not kickstart asap, I would build a site and a community around the idea to let it mature, find contact, build a team THEN kickstart
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebæcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2013, 10:00:43 AM »

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But with kickstarter, you could potentially lure in a big crowd on nothing but an idea and some concept artwork. Then you get the funding, then you hire the team.
how often has that actually worked out though?
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John Sandoval
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 10:28:49 AM »

i'd never fund anyone who hasn't proven themselves with previous work before, esp. for games

just look at these forums, what percentage of all games started end up becoming vaporware? something like 80 percent? maybe 90 for people who haven't finished anything before

games take a lot more work than people often realize
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BleakProspects
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2013, 11:15:22 AM »

No one Cares About Your Cool Game Idea
Except when your idea got 3000 up votes in Reddit in less than 24 hours Smiley It changes the traditional rules of development.

Considering that's the community that upvotes fucking Legend of Zelda cakes to the front page every day, no it doesn't.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2013, 05:19:31 PM »

Even when you have something finished before, new ambition is like starting over.
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebæcülo dum borobürükiss)
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2013, 04:46:27 PM »

Wow a lot of hate here, sorry for whatever i did.

 Anyways a quick update.

  I teamed up with a an awesome experienced game dev, Gavin http://www.gmtdev.com/blog/
He has taught me a ton about organization in game development, and given me some confidence going forward.

 I have been working on and finishing various animations though spine, tiles and sprites, as well as some larger assets for websites and such. After a few weeks working with Gavin we have come to the conclusion that for the game to be as good as it can we need to bring in a few more people, so now I am compiling a list of people with experience who have expressed interest to include in this team, so far I have 6 coders, 2 sound artists, a writer, and a filmmaker interested.


Does anyone know of a good resource for indie to seek cheap legal advice on structuring a project like this?



 If you are interested e-mail me at [email protected] I appreciate all the positive advice and feedback displayed in this thread so far. Cheers! -Kyle
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 06:53:16 PM by Nasturtium » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 06:45:57 AM »

so far I have 6 coders, 2 sound artists, a writer, and a filmmaker interested.
Stop it right here, you are commiting a suicide. It is a simple game, you need only 1 coder (OK maybe 2 if they like working with each other, but that's an absolute maximum). The last thing you need is a big team that wastes your time talking and talking forever. Don't forget that people are never free (even if they work for free), each adds management overhead, and suck out your (the project's manager) the stamina which you might need for other things. Make as small of a team as possible and go for a rapid prototype stage.

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that for the game to be as good as it can
First make a playable fun prototype (in a reasonable amount of time). You can worry about making the game perfect later (preferably never, all the games that I have seen that were designed to be as good as possible turned out crap and/or unfinished).

Finish your FIRST game, then come back and we can talk about perfection Smiley Really, I don't know why all those people who are new to this so hugely underestimate an effort required to make a game that is decent and does not crash... It is difficult enough to finish your first game even without adding perfection to the mix.
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Nasturtium
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2013, 08:22:25 AM »

so far I have 6 coders, 2 sound artists, a writer, and a filmmaker interested.
Stop it right here, you are commiting a suicide. It is a simple game, you need only 1 coder (OK maybe 2 if they like working with each other, but that's an absolute maximum). The last thing you need is a big team that wastes your time talking and talking forever. Don't forget that people are never free (even if they work for free), each adds management overhead, and suck out your (the project's manager) the stamina which you might need for other things. Make as small of a team as possible and go for a rapid prototype stage.

Quote
that for the game to be as good as it can
First make a playable fun prototype (in a reasonable amount of time). You can worry about making the game perfect later (preferably never, all the games that I have seen that were designed to be as good as possible turned out crap and/or unfinished).

Finish your FIRST game, then come back and we can talk about perfection Smiley Really, I don't know why all those people who are new to this so hugely underestimate an effort required to make a game that is decent and does not crash... It is difficult enough to finish your first game even without adding perfection to the mix.

 I see, well as I stated, they are interested, I am currently trying to figure out who will be the best fit. People keep telling me in all kinds of different ways that I am going to fail at whatever I try.  I understand completely  that making a successful game is a  monumental undertaking full of pitfalls. I get it. Should I just give up then before I try? I have generated all this interest in my ideas, I did not expect to, but if I try nothing then I could never forgive myself.

 All I can do is take things one step at a time.

Step1. Get people interested in my idea. check.
Step2. Write out a game design document. check.
Step3. Contact the people who are interested. check.

 I don't get it, what have I done wrong so far.

 My next step as I see it to research what kind of legal documents I need in place to protect everyone involved so, even if we accomplish nothing at all, we can approach each other from a position of trust.

 I will ask again, does any one know a good resource for indie game devs to find good legal advice on creating a team.

 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 08:28:15 AM by Nasturtium » Logged
John Sandoval
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2013, 08:37:24 AM »

you really don't want that much overhead when you don't even have a prototype set up

dealing with/managing a large team is a huge hassle. hurt egos, communication difficulties, all multiplied by N members. like you're saying, you're putting together all these legal documents/infrastructure before you even have any sort of product available.

always try to make a prototype before deciding to include more people; making drastic changes to gameplay/how the game runs is much, much easier when you dont have too many other people to debate it with/keep updated. also you avoid the chance of having people's work suddenly become unnecessary/outdated (ie art assets for a feature that no longer exists)

after the prototype is done, and you have a good idea of what works/what you need, then go ahead and add as many people as you want.

Wow a lot of hate here, sorry for whatever i did.

not hate, just realism. nobody's working themselves into a raging froth over your game idea.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 08:50:28 AM by John Sandoval » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2013, 08:28:11 AM »

People keep telling me in all kinds of different ways that I am going to fail at whatever I try.
Isn't it (telling people that they will fail) one of the greatest joys of life? :D As long as it is not you who is telling it to yourself you should be fine.

As for what you did wrong, well you got a good start. An idea that was interesting to people, quite nice personality (which is rare) and more or less solid designable idea.
Then you side tracked. Instead of trying to make a prototype you started worrying about building a team and about legal advices... It all does not matter, what matters is the game. You need to make it as fast as possible.

You are an artist, right? Find ONE coder and both make a prototype.

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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2013, 08:56:51 AM »

I'm just going to say, if you interpret the comments in this thread as "hating" you are going to have a very tough time making a game.  It requires a pretty thick skin to be able to handle the inevitable criticism that is going to come up (99% of which will be much more "hateful" than the comments in this thread).
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2013, 11:46:28 PM »

You are an artist, right? Find ONE coder and both make a prototype.

This.
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