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1059036 Posts in 43043 Topics- by 34989 Members - Latest Member: ElectricSeagull

October 30, 2014, 10:58:18 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessWhat should I expect to pay for graphics
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Author Topic: What should I expect to pay for graphics  (Read 2374 times)
FatBasic
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« on: April 22, 2013, 02:45:10 AM »

I am currently working on a fps game in my spare time, and I would like to find out how much it would roughly cost me for getting the sprites for the enemies and objects made.

I'm inspired by Wolfenstein 3D, and therefore I would like to represent the enemies and objects as billboards.
For the enemies I would need for left, right, front and back facing direction a walking animation and a standing/idle sprite. For the front facing direction I would also need a shooting animation (from a gun) and an animation for dying and maybe when getting hit.
Objects would just be a single sprite without animation.

What should I expect to pay for each enemy and objects?

The thread for the game:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=32785.0
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Cloudiest Nights
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 08:03:18 PM »

Im no expert or amateur on the subject, but I think that many different artists will price themselves at different costs. Here's one company that does the art for AVWW2: http://heavycatweb.net/hcs/pricing.html They have prices for RPG sprite characters at 100+ dollars. This seems fairly high to me, though.
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 10:06:42 PM »

that's average or even low, not high. i've seen much higher prices. for instance the indie game skullgirls paid something like $100,000 per character for its animation (although that was a fighting game and characters have a lot of frames of animation)
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FatBasic
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2013, 10:54:38 AM »

Thanks for the information.
If anyone got more links for prices on companies that does graphics please share Smiley
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SterlingDee
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2013, 12:22:51 PM »

I think the old adage, "you get what you pay for", holds true in this case. You can probably get graphics with your specifications for any price, really.

Do you want low resolution graphics to fit the Wolf 3d feel?
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surt
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2013, 01:30:05 PM »

If anyone got more links for prices on companies that does graphics please share Smiley
If you want good, consistent art I would probably recommend looking for an artist or two, rather than an "art" factory like that Heavy Cat appears to be (And seriously, a graphics company with a website that looks like that?).
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FatBasic
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 04:02:38 AM »

Do you want low resolution graphics to fit the Wolf 3d feel?

I'm not looking for Pixel art Smiley

If you want good, consistent art I would probably recommend looking for an artist or two, rather than an "art" factory like that Heavy Cat appears to be (And seriously, a graphics company with a website that looks like that?).

You are probably right about it would be best finding an artist to do the job.

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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 08:19:15 PM »

that's average or even low, not high. i've seen much higher prices. for instance the indie game skullgirls paid something like $100,000 per character for its animation (although that was a fighting game and characters have a lot of frames of animation)

That really doesn't sound right at all.
I mean they'd have to be fudging the numbers there or that quote is incorrect. it says they only need say 30k for animation contracting in indie gogo, so I can't imagine it being 3x more.
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Muz
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 10:35:18 PM »

They have prices for RPG sprite characters at 100+ dollars. This seems fairly high to me, though.

How is that high? $100 is about a day's salary.

You might say, hey, I can draw a sprite in an hour. But they have to discuss with the client to settle on the requirements (how big is the sprite, what palette, what's the feel of the game, hair color, bra size, etc). This takes hours, even when rushed. And they have clients who are cheap and retarded and complain that they want at least 10 frames for each animation. This takes more time. Then some clients will decide something else completely and change requirements every week. This takes months if the client is not fired.


Personally, I find that outright paying people for individual art (or code or whatever) doesn't work. Incentive kills creativity, they'll just blaze through their job and hand it to you as long as it meets your "requirements". Pay them for their time and give them creative space.

Discuss the game concept with artists. Do this with people in a community, like TIGS or DA or whatever. Find someone who thinks "OMG that's a great idea, I'll even work for free if I had free time". Find out what they're paid, put them on a weekly/monthly salary, slightly higher than what they expect. Sit with them (or skype), give them regular feedback about what you really like or dislike, until both of you are thinking the same thing.

Freelancers don't work because you're often expecting the freelancer to read your mind. They can't. Both will waste time. Both of you have to do concept art & design together, and that's not something you can easily pull off with most (cheap) freelancers.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:50:05 PM by Muz » Logged
Rocket
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 11:23:07 AM »

They have prices for RPG sprite characters at 100+ dollars. This seems fairly high to me, though.

How is that high? $100 is about a day's salary.

You might say, hey, I can draw a sprite in an hour. But they have to discuss with the client to settle on the requirements (how big is the sprite, what palette, what's the feel of the game, hair color, bra size, etc). This takes hours, even when rushed. And they have clients who are cheap and retarded and complain that they want at least 10 frames for each animation...

Well that does seem high to me they specifically state 4 directions 3 frames per animation.  The quality also doesn't seem there to me, the website looks tacky etc...  Also if you aren't paying someone you can expect them not to stay very long.
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 12:09:55 PM »

4 directions with 3 frames of animation is still 12 total frames. assuming each frame can be done in half an hour, that's 6 hours of work (plus the discussion stuff and modifying it to the game developer's liking)

$100 is not "expensive" for 6+ hours of work; it's about below-average wage for skilled professionals, and only slightly above minimum wage
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Gregg Williams
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 05:47:22 PM »

Yeah somehow people always forget that professionals often are or can be making essentially 35-50 an hour working for a company while also getting tons of benefits and other perks. (At least in the USA) Freelancing prices are often higher than full time salary style employment, given lack of benefits, biz expense, and additional taxes.

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Rocket
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 09:32:10 AM »

4 directions with 3 frames of animation is still 12 total frames. assuming each frame can be done in half an hour, that's 6 hours of work (plus the discussion stuff and modifying it to the game developer's liking)

$100 is not "expensive" for 6+ hours of work; it's about below-average wage for skilled professionals, and only slightly above minimum wage

That is a big assumption though, 3 of those frames are just flipped versions of the other, and there are only 3 unique base frames with 6 modified version of those 3 base ones.  Back in my RPG Maker 95 days I used to create on walking animated sprite in about an hours time.  Multiply that by two for some padding and that's 50$ an hour.  I personally think 6 hours for a 32x32 sized frame of a standard RPG type sprite is toooo much especially for a professional.

If i paid 110$ for one of these sprites http://heavycatweb.net/hcs/resource/sprite-2.jpg I would be highly dissatisfied
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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 09:52:23 AM »

yeah but those sprites are not exactly professional tier
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Muz
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 11:48:35 PM »

They have prices for RPG sprite characters at 100+ dollars. This seems fairly high to me, though.

How is that high? $100 is about a day's salary.

You might say, hey, I can draw a sprite in an hour. But they have to discuss with the client to settle on the requirements (how big is the sprite, what palette, what's the feel of the game, hair color, bra size, etc). This takes hours, even when rushed. And they have clients who are cheap and retarded and complain that they want at least 10 frames for each animation...

Well that does seem high to me they specifically state 4 directions 3 frames per animation.  The quality also doesn't seem there to me, the website looks tacky etc...  Also if you aren't paying someone you can expect them not to stay very long.

Ah, right, I just looked there and saw the quality. But I suppose $100 is about right for a cheap, mass produced sprite.

Another approach might be just to go to a school art club and pay them & train them to do sprites. Maybe check your country's laws on child labor, lol. But I would've loved it if an indie developer came to me and offered $100 just to do a four directional sprite.
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 10:06:53 AM »

Heavy Cat Studios may be a rip off according to this FGL thread: https://www.fgl.com/view_thread.php?search=1&offset=0&thread_id=41306

Some excerpts for people without FGL accounts:
"I hired Heavy Cat Studios to work on the sequel to my racing game "Freegear", but they have been quite unresponsive so far and I'm not exactly aware of the market for these things, but $1000 for a car animation, still props and a handful of backgrounds is a little steep for me."

"To start with Heavy Cat Studio, I would recommend you not to work with him. My experience with them was very bad, especially about delays and communication. Having to ask during months to deliver the work."

"NEVER work with Heavy Cat Studios. They are a scam.

I know an artist who worked for them and did about 1-2 weeks work and they simply didn't pay him. And he knew of other artists in a similar position. Same level of bs goes for companies hiring HCS to make games.

If you're an artist working for them, you sign a contract that may as well read "I agree to shoot myself in the foot.""

Be careful guys.  No one wants their (already) small budget to become even smaller.
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matriax
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 01:14:35 AM »

Heavy Cat Studios may be a rip off according to this FGL thread: https://www.fgl.com/view_thread.php?search=1&offset=0&thread_id=41306

Some excerpts for people without FGL accounts:
"I hired Heavy Cat Studios to work on the sequel to my racing game "Freegear", but they have been quite unresponsive so far and I'm not exactly aware of the market for these things, but $1000 for a car animation, still props and a handful of backgrounds is a little steep for me."

"To start with Heavy Cat Studio, I would recommend you not to work with him. My experience with them was very bad, especially about delays and communication. Having to ask during months to deliver the work."

"NEVER work with Heavy Cat Studios. They are a scam.

I know an artist who worked for them and did about 1-2 weeks work and they simply didn't pay him. And he knew of other artists in a similar position. Same level of bs goes for companies hiring HCS to make games.

If you're an artist working for them, you sign a contract that may as well read "I agree to shoot myself in the foot.""

Be careful guys.  No one wants their (already) small budget to become even smaller.


Here my actual history:

Is Heavycat scam ? skyprollc scam ? ...

Well this is my situation, i'm tired of this and i go to to post and send advises to the people to no contract heavycat or skyprollc (They are the same)

Here other that payed near a year ago(My patience is over) for a comic project and never see nothing back than and fast sketches of characters in black/white made in a few minutes after wait 4-5 months.

Still remember the email before pay that was:

Quote
   "Hey, Are we in business? I have a producer and our artist standing by."


...But the reality is that the producer was assigned more than 2 weeks(Or he said..) after this email and only after 4-5 months i received a useless sketches.

After tired of all this i requested the refund of my money and i get this reply from Scott, the Executive Producer and CEO.

Quote
   We're not able to find an artist with enough time to complete your comic project, so we will be canceling the commission and refunding your payment.  We will contact you shortly with an update on how the refund will be processed.

...Shortly? This email was received on november of the last year(The last email i received from Scott), and now, April 21, 6 months after still i'm waiting for the refund.

They changed the email various times and every month or some weeks i sent an email but after the email to request the funds i'm not getting any reply(6 months ago).

Now i see they have 2 companies or websites with practically the same content.

A week ago i sent an email using their form in both webs asking about the refund and again no replies. I sent emails to all the email directions i was get replied and the new/updated ones in their webs without luck.

So, i will contact paypal, like this guy with a similar situation like me: http://www.talkarcades.com/talk-arcades/19943-its-time-you-heard-what-you-dont-want-hear.html#post135696

Quote
   So I called up Paypal to see what my options were and they said I could easily get my money back. I offered you to keep $100 and refund me the $800 immediately. You sent the money within a day or so and that's that.

Seems the unique form to get the money back Sad , well , this and post the history on every developers forums like the other guys that get finally their refund:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,176943.0.html?PHPSESSID=pnFTAYBdpt1K17sDxVFl62
http://www.talkarcades.com/talk-arcades/19943-its-time-you-heard-what-you-dont-want-hear.html#post135696

etc...

And well, if you search in google you can find a lot more stuff of people angry with refunds, deliver times, emails without replies....:

https://www.google.com/#q=heavy+cat+scam

So, well, if they not want answer me via email maybe they want answer me via forums, seems the only way to get their attention, seems their are more focused on reply posts in forums, trying to clean his image than answer the emails.

Again, as i said, i sent an email to all the directions on i get previously a reply from they and also from the new and updated ones in their websites using the form, receiving the last one from they 6 months ago, as you can see, post on forums is my last option, and don't know what more can i do.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:19:21 AM by matriax » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 08:45:41 PM »

Why Video Game Artists Can't Make a Living

We are Heavy Cat Studios.

We co-developed four video games that have generated an estimated one million dollars ($1,000,000.00) in retail sales.

We were paid $59,262 to make those games.

This is our story.

[link removed]
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 11:52:59 AM by John Sandoval » Logged

surt
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2014, 12:24:00 AM »

So if I read that right, you're a middle-man skimming the profit of the artists' work and then blaming your client (I didn't see anything about them breaking any agreement) because your mismanagement resulted in you stiffing your artists?

I thought the one redeeming quality of such an arrangement was that the artist would be shielded from such financial problems.

And you're asking for donations without offering any assurance that the guilty management will be drawn-and-quartered?
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matriax
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2014, 01:46:07 AM »

So if I read that right, you're a middle-man skimming the profit of the artists' work and then blaming your client (I didn't see anything about them breaking any agreement) because your mismanagement resulted in you stiffing your artists?

I thought the one redeeming quality of such an arrangement was that the artist would be shielded from such financial problems.

And you're asking for donations without offering any assurance that the guilty management will be drawn-and-quartered?

Exactly is the same i understood and i was writting, but your english is better than mine and your resume more clear  Hand Clap
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