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[Blademasterbobo]

if you look at the top speedruns for each level, they don't all have the mole. you're just talking out your ass.

[Acccent]

Actually I've just reread your post about MGS and I don't agree about the beginning being bad and the need to play for some time before getting to the good parts

The first levels in MGS 1 and 2 (can't speak for 3 yet) are very good, you're indeed without a gun but there is no better way to SCREAM at the player that confrontation should be avoided. You do learn very quickly how to hide, how to distract enemies and go around them, how to check their vision cones and learn their paths... It's very elegant I think. You can't get past them until you've gotten the point that this is about stealth and the basic goal is to go where you want to go at the exact time when neither of the patrolling guards are looking. MGS is remembered for the scenes like the Psycho Mantis encounter, but that's exotic gameplay, the core puzzle-esque gameplay is a huge part of what makes these games good and even if you play them now they're stellar (ie. they were not just good because there were no other stealth games, like someone else said.)

@bobo: who's talking about speedruns?

[Blademasterbobo]

if you're mad at players on your team running around with the mole, then that's a problem with who you're playing with. you're talking about what the "most effective" way to go through a level is (namely smashing it to pieces with the mole), and you're straight up wrong. if you look at the primary metric of skill used by the game, that's not necessarily the best way to approach levels. in other words, it's not the most effective way to play. in other words, it's a playstyle your team is choosing to use, not one the game is forcing you to use. in other words, it's like you playing deus ex hr while only using the rocket launcher and then whining about how it doesn't have any good stealth mechanics.

[SundownKid]

In early levels, the Mole feels cheap since you can basically just bust in, and then run out without being caught. However, once the guns and security systems come into play, Mole becomes less useful, though still nice to have as a backup plan. Still not a game breaker, as the wall breaking comes at the cost of another potential skill.

Stealth is certainly necessary, you can't just "run around" the whole time without having to hide from the guards once they get guns. Much like Metal Gear, you will die if you stay out too long with the guards alerted. While COMPLETE stealth isn't necessary, some stealth is pretty much required.

[Pandara_RA!]

The worst class is hacker rarely does hacking a comp actually remove the full danger of a level, coupled with being awkward to turn off say laser 2 among 10

mole is basically the lockpicker. He's better to have in levels with handprint doors because he by passes the lockpicking of the door and the alarm by just digging one to the side, in addition to keeping it opened

[Tanner]

in what way is the hacker worse than, say, the pickpocket? once the hacker gets 2 or 3 daemons following him he becomes incredibly useful

[Blademasterbobo]

panda is just a hacking noob  

"hey could you stand there and hack the laser??" "ok!" *runs over to laser, turns it off, runs away, laser turns on while still picking safe lock*

[Ashkin]

The Hacker's quite useful- probably in my top three classes, though there are some levels where he's almost useless due to there being very few lasers, there are enough laser-wrought levels to balance it out. However, I do wish the daemons were mouse controllable- clicking one and then clicking the device you want to turn off would be handy, as sometimes the laser blocking you is arranged in such a way that the daemon just goes to a nearer (and useless) laser. I guess that's part of the challenge though?