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999290 Posts in 39213 Topics- by 30619 Members - Latest Member: Luux

April 23, 2014, 03:05:06 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralGame Pirates get Pirated
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Question: is this awesome y/n?
y - 24 (41.4%)
n - 12 (20.7%)
cactus - 22 (37.9%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: Game Pirates get Pirated  (Read 1813 times)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2013, 02:55:56 PM »

Yeah, I think it is two things:
1) This isn't a novel idea.  As such, those of us who know it isn't a novel idea have a bit of backlash over the response to this one.
2) Their game is a pretty blatant clone of GameDev Story, and I think most indies treat game cloning as a worse sin than game piracy.

i think those are fair points, however, both of those are basically the same point: that they aren't "original". i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though, not every game can be original. if not for all the unoriginal doom clones that were released shortly after doom was, there would be no fps genre. unoriginal clones are just a side effect of the formation of a genre. look at minecraft-likes and tower defense games for more examples; as any genre forms you are going to get a bunch of clones, it's just how the process works

it's like, if there's less than a few hundred games in a genre, we call them all 'clones' of the original game, if there's several thousand games in a genre, we just call them games in a genre
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2013, 03:08:07 PM »

it's like, if there's less than a few hundred games in a genre, we call them all 'clones' of the original game, if there's several thousand games in a genre, we just call them games in a genre

Really interesting point, never thought about it that way before. What constitutes a 'true clone' then? How much does someone have to steal/borrow/be inspired by?

I'll definitely be thinking twice about using the word clone now.
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2013, 03:14:43 PM »

I'd call a clone any game where the rules/mechanics/elements are 99% identical, meaning the developers did nothing but copy what was already there with no changes.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2013, 03:15:58 PM »

it's like, if there's less than a few hundred games in a genre, we call them all 'clones' of the original game, if there's several thousand games in a genre, we just call them games in a genre

but management games are a huge genre that has been around forever lol. it's not like game dev story is some kind of groundbreaking masterpiece that invented a new type of gameplay (not holding that against it btw).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 02:28:51 AM by C.A. Sinner » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2013, 03:26:03 PM »

I'd call a clone any game where the rules/mechanics/elements are 99% identical, meaning the developers did nothing but copy what was already there with no changes.

sure, but this applies to a very very small number of what people call clones. this game for example isn't 99% identical to game dev story. the great giana sisters isn't 99% identical to super mario bros. either, even though it's often called a clone of super mario bros.



also, 99% is still only 99%, not 100%. consider this: you are 99% identical, genetically, to every other human who exists on this planet right now. it's the 1% of difference in the genes that matters
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2013, 04:30:51 PM »

also, 99% is still only 99%, not 100%. consider this: you are 99% identical, genetically, to every other human who exists on this planet right now. it's the 1% of difference in the genes that matters
That's just being pedantic. If you compare the games' binaries in a hex editor, you'll notice they're completely different games with less than 1% similarity. Sure, it's true technically, but that's just not how we measure that stuff.

if not for all the unoriginal doom clones that were released shortly after doom was, there would be no fps genre.
Not to disagree with you on clones not being bad, but no, unoriginal clones do not make a genre. It takes original 'clones', games with lots of similarity which do significantly add and/or change elements, to turn a game into a genre. To this day, 'Tetris' is still not a genre, even though there are countless unoriginal clones out there which replicate its gameplay 99% identically. 'Falling block puzzle games', on the other hand, became a genre as games like Puyo Puyo and Columns started appearing, clearly borrowing from Tetris yet playing differently.

What difference is there between Game Dev Story Tycoon and the original? With how even the name will confuse the casual player, it seems like just an unoriginal ripoff clone to cash in on the others' success.
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2013, 04:44:06 PM »

Quote
What difference is there between Game Dev Story Tycoon and the original?
Their distribution platform are torrents Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2013, 06:15:08 PM »

i think those are fair points, however, both of those are basically the same point: that they aren't "original". i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though, not every game can be original. if not for all the unoriginal doom clones that were released shortly after doom was, there would be no fps genre. unoriginal clones are just a side effect of the formation of a genre. look at minecraft-likes and tower defense games for more examples; as any genre forms you are going to get a bunch of clones, it's just how the process works

it's like, if there's less than a few hundred games in a genre, we call them all 'clones' of the original game, if there's several thousand games in a genre, we just call them games in a genre

Well, I mean I do think that they are two separate things. At their root, yes, both of them are essentially "A group of people have gaps in their knowledge and therefore find this interesting." 
Specifically, this type of soft DRM has been in effect since at least '94 (since I know Earthbound has it), perhaps longer.  I guess the irony here is that the made it specifically about piracy, which some people find hilarious?  I think it merited about half a smirk from me, but there's no accounting for taste.

As for cloning?  Yeah, I understand that there is room in a genre for similarity, and that as more games come along that's how a genre is formed.  With that, I think all games fall along a continuum of relation to any other game which is something like:
Clone (Luftrauser Clone -> Luftrauser)
  |
Near Clone (Ninja Fishing -> Ridiculous Fishing)
  |
Same Genre
  |
Different Genre

I think most people recognize that the "Clone" is bad.  The "Near Clone" is where things get very grey and muddy.  I'm not saying this game is a full "Clone" but I think it sits in between "Clone" and "Near Clone". 

I think VDZ's point about 'Falling block puzzle games' being a genre but 'Tetris' not being a genre is the correct distinction.  Obviously, similar games are going to exist, and that's entirely ok (and a good thing as seemingly small tweaks to a game can reveal new things about a genre).  But this doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table (except for the 'cute' DRM).

@Sinclair
Yeah, management games have existed, and obviously there are going to be similarities between games of the same genre.  But even looking at Kairosoft, they produce very similar games, but they always bring something new to the table.  I'm having trouble putting it into words, so I'll go through some management games to try to make my point.

Rollercoaster Tycoon vs Zoo Tycoon: Very similar gameplay (in that it is all about managing customer reactions), but the difference in theming and other mechanics (like the rollercoaster creation) mean these seem suitably distant.
Rollercoaster Tycoon vs Theme Park: Despite similar gameplay and theme these games feel different.  Perhaps it's the humor of Theme Park, or the greater emphasis on Rollercoasters in Rollercoaster  Tycoon, but I wouldn't say that Rollercoaster Tycoon is a clone of Theme Park.
Game Dev Story vs Game Dev Tycoon: I find it hard to find any differences here.  The gameplay is the same.  The theme is the same.  The graphics are different?  Their font choices are bad?  Not sure that they are pushing the genre forward in any sort of substantive way.
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2013, 01:47:41 AM »

they almost outright stole that game from another iphone game with almost exactly the same name

they're a bunch of self-righteous assholes

Looks like they need to add another game mode to it, where instead of being ruined by pirates, the player has their game cloned by somebody who adds nothing original to it, casuing them to lose a percentage of their sales.

Bonus points if anyone can persuade them to add this without the irony being noticed.

(PS. I've played neither of these games personally, so I honestly don't know if one is a clone of the other, but from some of the comments thus far, it certainly seems like it might be)
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2013, 02:27:56 AM »

@Sinclair
Yeah, management games have existed, and obviously there are going to be similarities between games of the same genre.  But even looking at Kairosoft, they produce very similar games, but they always bring something new to the table.  I'm having trouble putting it into words, so I'll go through some management games to try to make my point.
no, i was making an argument for gamedev tycoon being a clone because rinku's point was that games in small genres are always called clones and i was responding to that. sorry if that was unclear.
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« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2013, 04:53:20 AM »




The argument basically boils down to if it's a clone or an iteration. There's a weirdly high tolerance level for this in the game industry. Of course it's up to the consumers to draw this line and not law.

I would say that the game above is more of an iteration because of social integration.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:59:36 AM by Mono » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2013, 08:35:30 AM »

i think the issue is more of an intent thing, and when they named their game "game dev tycoon" (vs "game dev story"), their intent is pretty fucking clear as far as i'm concerned. that said, it's not like this is a new genre. there are tons of business "sim" games.
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« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2013, 08:45:57 AM »

i don't see how anyone could say that those two screenshots are 99% similar, or even 50% similar. the gui and graphics styles are totally different. i'm hard-pressed to find *anything* similar about those two screenshots, except that both involve people sitting at computers in an office?
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« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2013, 09:00:35 AM »

The game mechanics are the same.
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« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2013, 09:10:05 AM »

Looks like they need to add another game mode to it, where instead of being ruined by pirates, the player has their game cloned by somebody who adds nothing original to it, casuing them to lose a percentage of their sales.

Or instead of losing a percentage, the company that clones it is named "Pynga" (hurhurhur) and proceeds to make 10,000 times more money off it than you did. :3
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