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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusiness[CAREER PATH] Fork in the road, would like some advice.
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Author Topic: [CAREER PATH] Fork in the road, would like some advice.  (Read 1266 times)
DecapitatedOrk
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« on: May 07, 2013, 08:28:58 AM »

Okay, so I'm currently a CS major finishing my first year. Because college is expensive, and I have fabulous marketable skills which we will get into later, I decided that it would be wise to start my own business so I can adjust my workload as needed based on time available so I can graduate hopefully debt-free. As for the choices I'm split into these two categories: Web Designs/Production for indie developers, or my one man army flash/html5 development studio.

I have had roughly two years (Its a three year program condensed to two)as a web designer about four years ago, and while my design skills are still polished due to "fucking around" I don't really have much of a portfolio. That being said, I've also spent a lot more time reading about the industry and development, rather than playing or developing. So while that doesn't make me an expert, I do feel like I'm at least quasi-qualified to consult and cover the business side of things. I also live in America, have experience starting an LLC, and am finishing my English minor in the next six months. I'm mostly looking to work for rev share on projects that are in alpha stage, I don't necessarily want to put in hundreds of hours of work into something that the devs just give up on. Likewise I'd also accept direct payment, but only for things that revolve around something nominal (Like make me a web-site, or create for us an LLC and transfer it to my name).

That being said, I'm not sure if there's really a market for this. I feel like most indies think they can manage the business side themselves, and even if they can't they would be weary of bringing in a person to the team who isn't contributing to the game's development. As the old axiom goes "Don't code? Don't draw? Don't bother." While I'd like to do some free work in order to earn trust, I'm moving off-campus for the summer and need to pay for food/rent.

As a game developer, my skills most derive from my programming experience which is both formal (From Uni) and informal (From 5 years of hobbiest development). I've also have basic pixel art skills that I got from GameJams, and fairly advanced UI skills that I got from my web design classes. That being said, I've never actually managed to finish a game; maybe, because I always treated it as a hobbiest attempt and had no real consequence of failing. I'm mostly interested in making small scope flash/html5 games for sponsorships via portal sites.

My worries with this is that if I spend four weeks making a game, and no one sponsors it then I'm screwed. How difficult is it to get sponsored? Is it possible to make $500 reliably via sponsorships alone? Also whats the average time frame that I should look for in a development of such games?

EDIT: Will proof read and edit sentence structure after I eat.
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FamousAspect
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 10:56:23 AM »

Hi DecapitatedOrk,

I read through your post, and I'm afraid I'm about to splash you with a giant bucket of ice water. I am not trying to be rude, but only trying to set realistic expectations based on my career. I have been a designer & producer of games for over 10 years including 4 years at EA/BioWare, have contributed to over 30 shipped titles and have spent the past year as a game design, production and monetization consultant for about 10 hours a week while working on my own game studio for the remainder of the time.

So, a few key pieces of feedback based on your post.

Quote
while my design skills are still polished due to "fucking around" I don't really have much of a portfolio.
A good portfolio is the key to freelance work. Without a public facing portfolio, I have no means by which to judge your skills. Without a portfolio, you post reads like a lot of hot air. For all I know you are an incredibly talented, hard working and dependable coder/web designer. But you need to prove it because if I was a prospective client and I received this in an email I would sent it immediately to the trash bin.

Quote
I do feel like I'm at least quasi-qualified to consult and cover the business side of things.
Again, you need proof to back up this statement. Without what I call a "heroic story" about a time you tangibly helped a game with the business side of things and made a measurable impact on the bottom line, I have no way of verifying that you are qualified. Experience breeds proof, proof breeds trust, trust breeds jobs.

Quote
I'm mostly looking to work for rev share on projects that are in alpha stage
In my experience, there are not a lot of rev share deals out there. Unless you have a proven track record or are bringing vital skills to the table, you are only going to get compensated in league with the amount of risk you take on a project. If you find someone at an equal experience level taking an equal risk (in terms of time and money invested) then you might find a rev share deal. If you think someone is going to give you 10% of revenue based on putting some work into a game that's already in alpha, my experience tells me your head is in the clouds. If others on the forum have more experience than me securing rev share deals then I congratulate you and hope they have netted you a worthy return on your investment.

Quote
That being said, I'm not sure if there's really a market for this... While I'd like to do some free work in order to earn trust, I'm moving off-campus for the summer and need to pay for food/rent.
Less than 10% of my clients are what I would call indie studios or developers. The problem with indies is that, in general, they don't have any money. If you need to earn money to pay the rent, then your market is not indie game developers, it is larger clients who have funding and/or successful games that have netted them a healthy bank account. This may mean doing web design far outside of game development for 10 hours a week to fuel your passion for the rest of your time.

Quote
That being said, I've never actually managed to finish a game; maybe, because I always treated it as a hobbiest attempt and had no real consequence of failing.
The proven ability to ship a game is the only skill that truly matters. If you want to turn this into a career you need to immediately focus on building a portfolio of high quality, fun, polished, shipped games that have garnered a lot of plays.


Quote
How difficult is it to get sponsored? Is it possible to make $500 reliably via sponsorships alone? Also whats the average time frame that I should look for in a development of such games?
Check out Flash Game License. This is the best place for info on sponsorship and help landing sponsors.

Sorry if this all sounds overly harsh. I'm not trying to be mean, just help you set realistic expectations based on my experience. Best of luck getting some shipped games under your belt! As soon as one is live I would love you to DM me a link!
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DecapitatedOrk
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 11:28:32 PM »

Thank you very much for your response. My main reason for posting this was to get some realistic feedback about the market and my opportunities within it from someone like yourself. While the first option is a lot more favorable, thanks to your advice its obviously a better idea to avoid that path at least for now. The next month should show if I can truly make it.

Cheers!  Toast Right
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Muz
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 11:43:19 PM »

IMO, game making is something you do late in life, like when you're at least 30. Especially if you live in a first world country. I can live comfortably off $8 an hour, and lavishly on $20 an hour. In first world countries, you'd be under immense pressure to live on that.

Games are one of the hardest things anyone could make. And yet there's too much competition. Before games, do software. Go for a small company or a big company that guarantees a lot of training (ask them about training during the interview). Be the underpaid, overworked guy. That way, you get trusted and you get access to industry secrets and know how.

Universities don't really teach you how to program as an indie. They teach you to write code together with huge groups. A lot of practices don't apply to solo programming. A lot of that optimization, compiler stuff is useless in most workplaces.

What most companies care about is releasing products on time, bringing time/costs down and profits up. That's a very important skill to learn, and you won't get that as an indie programmer who doesn't have to worry about time or budget.

You'll fail a lot before you can make a game that works. I'd estimate around 3-8 failed games before you can make one that makes enough money to pay for your failed ones. So try to get someone else to pay for your failures, or train you not to fail.
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Substance_G
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 03:03:53 AM »

@FamousAspect, what service would you recommend for hosting an online portfolio? I realize something as simple as Tumblr would suffice, but I'm hoping to have something a little more complex that would point to a domain name so that people visiting would type in portfolio.com rather than portfolio.tumblr.com.  I realize Tumblr may be able to have a domain point to a tumblr page, but I just don't really like the unprofessional look of Tumblr and the way it format posts (not to mention not directly supporting windowed games such as the Unity web player in the post).

I would be fine with something like Wordpress. I'm just wondering what most people find most useful for game development portfolios.

(I realize there is probably a topic on the forums discussing this, but I did several searches and wasn't able to find anything discussing this.)
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AleHitti
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 04:13:58 AM »

@Substance_G Most of my friends use either Wordpress or Weebly. Quick note on Wordpress though, if you use Wordpress.com, you don't have access to CSS unless you pay $30 extra a year and you don't have any JS scripting at your disposal, like, at all. If you use Wordpress.org you do have all these features as well as a bunch of plug-ins that you can install, but you can't have a .com domain (haven't done much research on this, but I'm pretty sure you can't). Weebly is another easy tool to make a website that looks professional if you spend enough time on it.

Hope that helps! You can check out my website if you want. It is made in Wordpress.com. Link in my signature or here:

http://alejandrohitti.com

Cheers!
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erebusman
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 07:38:35 AM »

Sorry if this all sounds overly harsh. I'm not trying to be mean, just help you set realistic expectations based on my experience. Best of luck getting some shipped games under your belt! As soon as one is live I would love you to DM me a link!

Not harsh at all, just realistic.

I've been making games since 1995 , actually participated in a successful start up and have shipped about a dozen games but I still can't work in the games industry because it pays too low.

Example: I got a offer from EA in the bay area for $13.00 an hour a few years ago when I was already making $32.00 an hour in IT.

Nevermind if you actually do make it in a development team when they ship their game there's around 80% chance you'll get laid off because they don't want to pay for developers when they don't have a project.

Focus on your current career path and finish it. You will probably make 90% more money and have stable employment your entire life if you finish that path.

In the evenings & weekends try to get involved in game projects and over time that will also work out.  Its possible you can get a 'break through' and be successful.  Or if not you will just have a lot of fun making games on the side while you also have enough money to support a lifestyle you wont be ashamed of.

Making video games is great fun.

Sacrificing your entire adult life of a lucrative and stable career is priceless.
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