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1073215 Posts in 43968 Topics- by 35999 Members - Latest Member: bpineda033

December 18, 2014, 12:14:56 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreativeArtCan a programmer make game art?
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 11:35:32 AM »

The problem is that most tutorial for programmer are written from an artist perspective. They should present art as an equation to solve and present the rules and principle. Surely it would not make super artistic sensibilities, but it would make something acceptable beyond crappy programmer art. That's why I see a lot of programmer shouting for "realism", it's something they can "measure". Now I have said something that will make 90% of artist vomit on their keyboards Who, Me?
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss) ! GЮЯЦ TФ ДЯSTӨTZҚД!
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2013, 11:58:18 AM »

The problem is that most tutorial for programmer are written from an artist perspective. They should present art as an equation to solve and present the rules and principle. Surely it would not make super artistic sensibilities, but it would make something acceptable beyond crappy programmer art. That's why I see a lot of programmer shouting for "realism", it's something they can "measure". Now I have said something that will make 90% of artist vomit on their keyboards Who, Me?

I think this is a bit unfair to programmers, though. While programmers (like myself) may be more inclined to explore systems with art artifacts, I don't know that they are unable to perceive of art in non-systemic ways. They manage to function perfectly well in other disciplines. Art isn't so special that it's exempt from this. I really think it's just a matter of practicing and producing work.
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JuanPablo
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2013, 12:40:16 PM »

(...), but even knowing all that stuff doesn't help me make that red ship thing at the beginning.  (...)
There is an asterisk : "*Probably"   WTF
(...)There's something else missing, and I've never found it in a tutorial yet, even the ones that insist I'll be drawing like that after them.
Like the classic tutorial: "Just draw the basic shapes, oval for head, rectangles for the torso, legs and arms, and then the rest. Easy!"
I think it maybe has to do with the way programmers learn, begin with the "Hello world" ritual and then create programs with more complexity every time, each one with well defined rules, resources, limits, behaviors, etc.
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Schoq
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2013, 02:24:33 PM »

Gimmy: An art tutorial aimed at programmers makes about as much sense as a dance tutorial made for for architects, or a welding tutorial for skydivers. I don't know why you're assuming programmers specifically are unable to start learning new skills without approaching it in some special programmy way.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2013, 03:57:31 PM »

That's not what I'm saying, I'm assuming mindset, not people.
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss) ! GЮЯЦ TФ ДЯSTӨTZҚД!
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 03:09:21 AM »

(...), but even knowing all that stuff doesn't help me make that red ship thing at the beginning.  (...)
There is an asterisk : "*Probably"   WTF
(...)There's something else missing, and I've never found it in a tutorial yet, even the ones that insist I'll be drawing like that after them.
Like the classic tutorial: "Just draw the basic shapes, oval for head, rectangles for the torso, legs and arms, and then the rest. Easy!"
I think it maybe has to do with the way programmers learn, begin with the "Hello world" ritual and then create programs with more complexity every time, each one with well defined rules, resources, limits, behaviors, etc.

I saw the *.  Smiley  Even with the 'probably', I still think it's not true.  There's nobody that will end up with that from that tutorial.  People looking for basic art tutorials simply don't have the mindset for that kind of thing and don't know where to start looking to learn it.  I think that artists learn it at a young age, and so don't really know how to teach it.  I think it's so ingrained in them that they simply don't understand why we don't see things that way.  (I feel the same way about logic and people who can't grasp it.  I have no idea how to teach it.)
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nikki
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2013, 03:20:52 AM »

Just make a roguelike. only using the 437 characters.
let the meaning of stuff decide what color (of a limited palette) you'll use for an object.

tadaa coherent art!

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SpriteAttack
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2013, 04:13:46 AM »



I already know that blog but that kind of art al least for me looks pretty infant and generic (I really hate them  No No NO) but maybe I should give it a chance.

So... you learn to code by doing WoW style MMO? Yeah, I guessed so. It's about starting with simple shapes to a) learn the tools and b) create something that looks ok right away to keep motivation high with achievable goals. If you look at later tutorials e.g. the tank or the helicopter you can see what can be achieved with more time, practice and effort.
http://2dgameartforprogrammers.blogspot.com/2012/09/apache-helicopter.html

Gimmy: An art tutorial aimed at programmers makes about as much sense as a dance tutorial made for for architects, or a welding tutorial for skydivers. I don't know why you're assuming programmers specifically are unable to start learning new skills without approaching it in some special programmy way.

I disagree... maybe narrowing it down to programmers is not ideal - let's call them 'non-artistically minded' or 'artistically challenged'. A lot of coders asked me for artistic advice - and a lot of the time end up frustrated as they see things in a different way. You can give an artist/ artistic person a pen and say draw something and more often than not they will get there in an artistic way - based on their experience and way to see things.
A lot of programmers on the other hand think more methodically. Taking the shape apart into it's base elements and creating those comes a lot easier than drawing e.g. the outline of a dragon with his wings spread. Now take the dragon and define the wings as triangles with rounded bases, the body as a combination of circles and the head as a few box shapes with some deformed circles for horns and nostrils and the dragon becomes a 'manageable' task for non-artistically minded' people.

In the end it boils down to a lot of practice - no matter which style, approach, toolset you use. The more you practice the better your results will be - it's as simple as that. If you manage to choose an approach that allows you to get rewarding results to keep the motivation up to practice it's even better.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 04:29:30 AM by SpriteAttack » Logged
Pishtaco
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2013, 10:14:56 AM »

I am a programmer who has made reasonable-looking games, without an artist. I stick to games that don't need drawing skills, and in particular avoid human figures or realistically drawn objects. If I do have to depict something I do it in a very stylized way, using blocks of flat colour where I can, and low-spec pixel or 3d art where I can build simple shapes by trial and error. I spend days looking through google image search for examples of the styles I am going for, and imitate the pictures I find, in particular the colours.
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JuanPablo
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2013, 06:27:53 PM »

Hi Smiley
Just make a roguelike. only using the 437 characters.
let the meaning of stuff decide what color (of a limited palette) you'll use for an object.

tadaa coherent art!


I found this as dificult as pixel art (if not even more)  Tongue.

(...)So... you learn to code by doing WoW style MMO?
Yes, I mean no, what I said is I don't like vectorial graphics because it remind me of Zynga games, I love old school games so by the moment I'm more interested in pixel art or freehand-like graphics.

It's about starting with simple shapes to a) learn the tools and b) create something that looks ok right away to keep motivation high with achievable goals. If you look at later tutorials e.g. the tank or the helicopter you can see what can be achieved with more time, practice and effort.
http://2dgameartforprogrammers.blogspot.com/2012/09/apache-helicopter.html
Yes I know (still generic for me) and again maybe I should give it a chance.
I am a programmer who has made reasonable-looking games
I clicked in the links of your signature and I think that your games look really awesome  Shocked.
I stick to games that don't need drawing skills, and in particular avoid human figures or realistically drawn objects.
It is a good advise but unfortunately it is a matter of taste.
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Zachariah Burke
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2013, 07:11:26 PM »



I already know that blog but that kind of art al least for me looks pretty infant and generic (I really hate them  No No NO) but maybe I should give it a chance.

So... you learn to code by doing WoW style MMO? Yeah, I guessed so. It's about starting with simple shapes to a) learn the tools and b) create something that looks ok right away to keep motivation high with achievable goals. If you look at later tutorials e.g. the tank or the helicopter you can see what can be achieved with more time, practice and effort.
http://2dgameartforprogrammers.blogspot.com/2012/09/apache-helicopter.html

Gimmy: An art tutorial aimed at programmers makes about as much sense as a dance tutorial made for for architects, or a welding tutorial for skydivers. I don't know why you're assuming programmers specifically are unable to start learning new skills without approaching it in some special programmy way.

I disagree... maybe narrowing it down to programmers is not ideal - let's call them 'non-artistically minded' or 'artistically challenged'. A lot of coders asked me for artistic advice - and a lot of the time end up frustrated as they see things in a different way. You can give an artist/ artistic person a pen and say draw something and more often than not they will get there in an artistic way - based on their experience and way to see things.
A lot of programmers on the other hand think more methodically. Taking the shape apart into it's base elements and creating those comes a lot easier than drawing e.g. the outline of a dragon with his wings spread. Now take the dragon and define the wings as triangles with rounded bases, the body as a combination of circles and the head as a few box shapes with some deformed circles for horns and nostrils and the dragon becomes a 'manageable' task for non-artistically minded' people.

In the end it boils down to a lot of practice - no matter which style, approach, toolset you use. The more you practice the better your results will be - it's as simple as that. If you manage to choose an approach that allows you to get rewarding results to keep the motivation up to practice it's even better.

Good luck!

Ermm... What most artists actually do is break things down into the basic shapes and refine them, whether or not they realize what they are doing. The "artistically minded" person has just practiced seeing the basic forms and details more effectively, and with enough practice the actual anatomy will become a basic form for you. :/

And as for artists just drawing things as they see them... most of the actual work to become an artist is actually training yourself to see the forms as they are. And how would it be possible to draw something without seeing it in some form first, whether in your mind or in life? Sight is an integral part of art.
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Gimym JIMBERT
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2013, 08:57:56 PM »

In general the most different things between artist and artistic challenged people is just expectation. Artist are fine as long they do their own things their own way. Actually some artistic challenge people does have skills, they just don't acknowledge it.

Some artist are fine with crap art and skill and even manage to build on it, I mean there is always a rob liefied in a group of artist, and it became a distinct style on its own, a lot of "great artist without skills" does it by simply having a "style" which is the only thing they know how to do, even when they wish they could do more (Osamu Tezuka, Go Nagai also Saint seya author).
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ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss) ! GЮЯЦ TФ ДЯSTӨTZҚД!
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2013, 07:45:06 PM »

has anyone ever like looked at desks? i dunno man, seems like tables 2 me
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wat a hell

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